Q&A: How to Write a Love Song with Victoria Dowdy

Photo by Ben Wooly.

Musician and singer/songwriter Victoria Dowdy is like really creative. Read the Q&A from our interview available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

ZACK ORSBORN:

So I am joined by Victoria Dowdy. Victoria is a musician. She writes her own music. She, collaborates with other musicians. So Victoria, we met in like, I think it was 2018 and I was swimming at the Ottoman Downs apartment complex pool. And I was like, who is that girl?

Oh my God. Oh my God.

You were so cool and so friendly. And I felt like an instant connection to you. So I had to have you on the show. And thanks for joining.

Thank you for having me. And thank you for such a lovely introduction. You were also really, really nice when I first met you.

That’s good. I was a mess back then, so I’m glad I was nice.

Well, so was I. And then Covid happened, and then we got to hang out a lot during Covid because we're, like, living right next to each other in that complex.

I remember I somehow got an old trombone and we did like a quick photoshoot. It was such an iconic picture.

I think I posted a picture of it with the caption “Tromboner” possibly?

When I was in middle school, I played trombone and I said tromboner all the time.

It's such a funny word.

Yeah, actually my MSN messenger name was Trombone Freak.

Amazing, amazing.

So since these years I've met you, you have just like—you're on the rise. You've always had star potential, like star quality. I always see you performing. You're collaborating. You're putting out music. What is the drive behind that? What keeps you going?

Yeah, well, I started really late. I think I was 26 when I started. I don't know that I'd even started when I met you. Actually, I think it was a couple of years until I really decided, hey, this is something that I've wanted to do my whole life.

Was too shy, too nervous about it, had imposter syndrome. And then at some point I realized, oh my God, if I don't do this now, I'm going to be 80 years old regretting it. So I've really thrown myself into it. And of course, there's also like the algorithm is like, you've got to keep putting stuff out all the time.

So that's part of it too. But truly, I just enjoy doing it. I enjoy hanging out with other musicians. I enjoy hanging out with other creatives in general, and I just I can't not make music, whether it's in front of people live or recording it. I've got to be doing it all the time, because otherwise I'd be singing in my shower.

I'm want to do that. And I remember when I first met you, you were dressing up as Elsa for kids’ parties.

Oh my God, that's right. I was a princess for kids parties.

And I was just in my little Ford Fusion dressed up like a princess, going to parties all the time.

You were born to be a performer. You were talking about being shy. Like, how did you overcome getting on stage? Because that's still something I have to overcome. Like performing as a solo act. What was that process like?

So I think the first thing would be working in a restaurant helped me a ton because I had to speak to, I mean, over the course of maybe ten years, thousands and thousands of people—like different personalities and learning how to read people.

And it's a performance too just being a waiter, you know, rattling off the soup of the day or whatever. You're performing. And then, I was a tour guide at a couple of different places: Graceland, Rock and Soul Museum. So another performance in a way. And then really just doing it. To answer your first question, is if you don't keep performing and you are the person that's kind of shy, you lose that muscle because it's a muscle you train to not be so scared anymore.

It's just practice. So I try to perform a lot too so I don't lose that because if I'm ever sick or something, it's been like a month, I can feel it. I get my nerves again, I get a little jittery.

Do you feel a different person on stage? Does like a persona come out? Or are you just Victoria?

It depends on what kind of music I'm doing. But yeah, I do feel like I have to push myself to be a little different. It's not that I feel like a completely different person, but what I'm showing is different, if that makes sense. I'm allowing myself to be more vulnerable than in just conversation. You have to be vulnerable, but in a way that's exaggerated, too.

So I think that's what I'm getting at, is you're being vulnerable, but you have to make sure people are seeing it, if that makes sense. Like I have really small eyes if you can see this. I've really small features and sometimes I'll rewatch videos just to do a little, you know, Monday morning quarterback situation and try to figure out what I need to do next performance wise.

And I'll realize I've got to open my eyes more. I've got to do the Joan Jett like big eyes thing or bigger movements, because otherwise people, if they're at a distance, they can't see your emotions in your face. You have to really put on an act for them to see what you're feeling.

I can relate to that. I also have small eyes, like they're pretty squinty. Like I also have bad vision even with glasses. So like I'm squinting. People think I'm mad a lot of the time. When I'm thinking, I look very serious. So I can relate to that. And I love that you like analyze your performances. What have you learned about yourself other than like open your eyes? When you look back at your work, how have you grown by doing that?

Yeah, there's a lot of introspection that I've done. Performing is really for the audience. So I've really focused on the quality of my voice in the moment. I really want to make sure my guitar and my voice sound good. But even right now, still, I'm trying to make sure that they're getting entertainment all around. So if you're too in your head, some people have said, and in a way it is kind of selfish if you're worried too much about yourself in that moment because you're there to entertain.

So if you're worried about yourself too much, you're really denying the audience of a good performance because you're not letting yourself do it.

That just gave me chills, like I've never thought about it that way. And another thing I really love about your music is you have really vulnerable lyrics, and they're very real and straightforward. It's not hidden behind like flowery metaphors and like things like that.

Where does that style come from? How have you honed that style?

Yeah, I think my natural writing style is very flowery. And then when I tried to start writing music, I was like, oh, it's kind of hard to get a cadence behind. And also, when I first started writing, I didn't know where to start, and a lot of what I heard was just to be honest, just be vulnerable, just do what feels right and it'll come to you.

So I just sat down and I was like, let me be vulnerable. What comes out, it'll be prose, you know, it's poetry, but it's more just how it comes out as opposed to sitting down and being like, okay, the meter needs to be this, and I need a thesaurus with me or something. I’ll still go there sometimes.

But, I do just want to be vulnerable. I want it to feel like I'm talking because those are some of my favorite songs.

When it doesn't feel pretentious, it feels like this person is just explaining to me what they're going through right now.

I love that. I still have a lot of work to do that because I want to like, be mysterious and cryptic and it's like I can't really connect with people that way.

But you do a good job of that in some of your poems. I very much enjoy it, I appreciate it.

I'm trying to be more plain language and, you know, not be so hidden because, you know, a lot of my life, I wanted to hide and so I would hide behind words. But now I'm at a point in my life where I want to be out there and be seen more for being like, vulnerable.

And I want to go back to the algorithm and social media and, you know, being vulnerable and being out there. What have you learned about having to constantly post and be a part of this machine to be seen?

I've had this conversation with several people recently. You learn that, especially as an artist right now, most people are indie artists, even some very famous people are indie.

So you've got to be your own PR and marketing and manager and all of that. So you can't be afraid to just be goofy online and post yourself a ton, because it may feel silly to you, but on the other end of it, that's exactly what you want is you want people to see you a little more. You want people to engage with you a little more, and that you're not afraid to be out there because being an artist is being out there.

Like you said, it's vulnerable to post a bunch because it is scary. You're like, am I annoying people? Am I posting too much? But you can't worry about that. You just have to do what you need to do.

Yeah, like let them be annoyed. Let them roll their eyes. Like who cares? Like you will find the right audience that will like what you're posting.

And if you do, if you get unfollowed, it's like, that's not your audience. They're not your people.

That's so funny. Someone unfollowed me on Spotify. I was like, why?

It hurts. For some reason I'm like, fuckin' asshole.

It hurts. But it's also really funny, especially on something like Spotify that's not even like pushing you something very often. I thought it was funny.

Spotify is a whole nother game. What is it like actually publishing music? What is your process when you have an idea for a song or a project, how do you get started?

Yeah. So I have a ton of songs that are just sitting in my phone and my voice notes. So when I'm ready, if I think this is one that I think is an earworm or catchy, or people will like, I'll pull it out and I'll show it to Ethan, my musical partner, Ethan Baker. He plays violin and guitar and mandolin, and we've been a duo since I started doing this, so he is definitely there for even some of my solo stuff.

Shout out to Oakwalker.

Thank you. But usually it will be Oakwalker. I'll bring a song to them, and mostly Ethan will figure it out. I let him have free rein over what he wants to do most of the time, and then we do the band right now. Unfortunately, our bassist is moving, which makes us very sad.

But we have a great drummer and I'll show the bassist and drummer and whoever else wants to join us. So we've got a lead guitarist or someone playing keys and I'll say, hey, okay, this is the vibe of the song, this is the tempo of this song. And then I let them do what they want pretty much, unless it's just something I'm like, oh man, I can't, I can't, no, sorry. We got to do something else with that.

But it's not, it's not nit picky. Because I know what I want to do. I've got my vocals, I've got my melody, I've got my strumming, maybe some lead stuff. And that's really what's important to me. And the rest is backing it up in a way that's complementary. And I also want everybody else who's playing to have their their say too, you know, so even though it's complementary and it's backing me, I want them to have their style show through and I want them to be able to have fun with it.

I don't want them to feel too constrained.

Yeah, I bet you're really easy to work with. I feel like with you being so collaborative, and your personality as being naturally open and kind, I'm sure people love to work with you. What's it been like having a duo? Starting with Oakwalker?

How did that get started?

Yeah. So also with the collaborative thing. Thank you. It's very nice of you to say. I've been working on getting more assertive in that way, though. So, because as an artist, you still also have to have a vision that you can't let it slip away, you know? So I do think I'm easy to work with, but maybe too easy sometimes.

You gotta lay down the law sometimes.

You do. You gotta be the boss. Be in charge. So I'm getting better.

I’m the same way. It's really hard for me to, like, tell people that I want something.

Excuse me. Could you not do that, please?

But, with Ethan, we were friends already, and then I decided I was going to write this song because I'd won this thing on Facebook to record at Royal Studios.

Really?!

Yeah. Boo Mitchell is the main engineer there, but his son was helping out some friends, and was like, I can offer some studio time. His name is Uriah Mitchell. He's awesome. And, I was like, man, if I'm going to record at Royal Studios where Al Green recorded and all these people like, I'm not going to do a cover song, I've got to write original music.

So I wrote my song. It was just me and a guitar, and I was like, man, I know this guy named Ethan that plays violin and that could be cool because I'd been listening to Electric Light Orchestra, ELO, which is more like disco. But yeah, you know, they've got violins.

So I was thinking about that. So I brought him in and we were like, man, this is fun.

We work well together. We’ve got good ideas. And then he showed me some of his songs and we were like, maybe we should make a band. And then it just worked, and we just kept going and we didn't stop.

I love that. You were talking about winning that thing on Facebook. It's almost like this is 100% your path.

You have found your calling.

I feel like it for sure. This is my passion.

When you were young Victoria, lil Victoria, did you see yourself being a musician? What kind of influenced you to follow this path?

So I just always sang. Just always. Even if it wasn't good—as a little toddler, I was singing.

I'm shy though, so it wasn't something that I really considered as a career. I would do choir, church and school, and I did musicals and then talent shows, and that was all as a child.

And then I was doing karaoke as an adult, and I often needed some liquid courage to do that because I was so shy. And then, I just realized at some point I had been wanting to do music for a long time.

I did the Southern Girls Rock and Roll Camp, and we did a band, and it was really good. Like, I just happened to accidentally find all these really great musicians at this camp. We were all like 15, 16, and then it just never—you know, we all were so young and I couldn't play in bars back then, you know?

So I waited another like ten years to do it. And I realized that on some level I always wanted to do it, but I just was like, oh, I'm too shy. I don't have the time. I've got to pay my bills. There's just—I was making all these excuses. And then I was like, oh my God, I have to do this. I feel so empty without it. Like I have to do it.

I feel like I can relate to that 100%. Like when I was kind of not doing art for a while, I was like, why the hell am I so depressed?

And then I started getting back to art around the pandemic and I was like, oh, like, this is my true calling. This is my path. When I do stuff like this, it gives me self-esteem. And so it gives me more confidence. Were there any lessons you've learned from musicians that kind of gave you a confidence to not be so shy?

Yeah, I think meeting other musicians who said they're still shy when they're the greatest thing I've ever seen, you know, or musicians who have said, you know, I was shy, like, I'm not anymore, but that's just because I kept doing it. And then also, one of my favorite tips about not being shy is being very prepared. So if you know what you're going to do, if you've done everything you can possibly do, you've practiced it over and over, you've got the muscle memory, you've done what you can do, like, now, have fun. And if you mess up, just keep going. It's okay if you mess up, because most of the time people don't even know.

That's true. It's like you're the only one who really notices or pays attention. So we kind of reconnected at Planet Fitness.

Yeah!

For me, like, fitness has really fueled my creative energy. I was like, very anti gym. Like you were talking about—making excuses. And how has having a consistent gym routine—how has that helped you with your art?

Yeah, I think growing up, in movies and popular culture, it's like, oh, you're either like an active person or you're an artsy person or you are a nerd. Like there's all these little silos you’re put in, but you can be a multifaceted person, like, you can take care of your health and also enjoy art.

There's no reason why you can't do both. Like you said, it's really nice to do both. They help each other. So for me, getting the blood pumping, sometimes I'll get in the car and start singing my ass off. Or like, I'll get a melody in my head at the gym because it's like when you're in the shower or you're going to sleep like you're relaxed and your head's empty.

So then you start having all these ideas coming up. So sometimes I'll leave the gym and like, start writing or singing something that I want to tackle because it helps my breath control too.

Oh yeah. I started taking voice lessons and my vocal teacher was like, singing is like 80% breathing. Which I was like, I never thought about it that way.

Yeah. It's all about knowing where to put your breath, and I won't get too boring with it, but, I mean, it's kind of crazy because at least when you're working at your muscles, like, you can look in the mirror and, like, see this muscles moving like, I know what to do. You have to imagine where your muscles are and your nose and your throat and your chest and your stomach, and figure out how to make them all work together.

I was like, blown away. Like I should have known this because, like, I was in choir, but I was probably stoned the whole time I was in college and doing chamber choir.

Hey, that's good for the creative juices, too. Sometimes. I don't knock it.

The first lesson [my vocal teacher] was like, you can control your diaphragm by breathing through your mouth. And I was like, oh, that's how you, like, use your diaphragm. I mostly breathe from my chest. Just like, mostly feeling anxious all time. I don't feel so anxious anymore. But, everything was always through the nose. And so for, like, to feel that coming through the mouth and working that muscle, it's been really interesting.

That's such a good point about anxiety.

I was in therapy once and they were like part of the reason you feel anxious is because you literally aren't breathing.

Like your body feels like it's choking. So when I sing and I do that breath control, it helps a lot. I have this thing where if I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack sometimes, I'll just do—do you remember any of, like, the Freddie Mercury videos from, like, the 80s, when he would get the crowd to, like, echo what he was doing and he was doing, like, vocal warmups, basically.

He's like tricking them into doing warmups with them. I'll do that if I'm having a panic attack, I'll be like, [sings] heeeeeeeey, because it's like getting all the air out and it'll like, help me calm down.

Yeah. And you're singing. I'm sure that calms you down. You're talking about therapy. Therapy's helped me a lot, too. What made you want to go to therapy?

What didn't make me want to go to therapy? Life. Because at some point, you have to realize, like, if I don't know how to fix what's happening, and I'm having the same problems and I can't fix it, I got to go to someone who can help me fix it, or at least deal with it, because, you know, sometimes your behavior, you think it's fine or your feelings, you feel like you're keeping them inside, but it's really affecting the people around you too.

So it's just I think everyone should go to a little therapy just once, you know, just once in their life.

What is kind of like your theme of writing these days? What's inspiring you out of life to write?

Yeah. So when I first started, it was just what are the deepest emotions that I can think of, the ones that are going to really stand out. And my mom was like, are you depressed? And I was like, yes, yes, I am. But also you exaggerate stuff, you know, with art, like I have this song called Love Liar that's about—I was trying to do a story song.

So it's about someone else and their perspective of trying to justify their behavior, but being a toxic partner.

And also just like, they're a little aware of what's going on, but they justify it. But that's not me. You know, sometimes I have story songs like that too, because I see how someone else is acting, and it kind of helps me understand them or understand how to interact with them.

If I'm like role playing as them and then most of the time—I don't do as many story songs now—most of the time I do work off of my own emotions at the time. Especially if some melody pops in my head. Whatever emotion I'm having at the time, I'll do that. Or I'll start writing the words and then start singing, and then whatever comes out, comes out.

It's a little happier as of late. I've had some people say like, wow, you sound happier. And I'm like, that's great. I love that my music sounds happy too. I know sometimes it's not as easy for people to connect with happy music unless they're like specifically in a really good mood. But that's just that's what I'm making right now.

And I hope it's not cliche because it's real.

It's not. I think we need more of that happiness. Like, especially now you know, people probably want to escape and feel good and like hear, see someone being happy. And it's such an inspiration.

I've always wondered how like Dolly Parton or, you know, people like that write happy music over and over.

I'm like, how do you do that? How do you express these emotions? I'm like, oh, they are just happy. Like I'm just writing a happier song.

Imagine that: being happy.

What? What is that like?

Like I've got this song right now about—I haven't put it out yet—but it's about girls bullying other girls, even as adults. And it's called Mean Girl. But it's like really happy because it's more about, instead of being like, I’m such a victim. It's more of like—which is fair to feel—but in this song, particularly, I'm like, well, I know that's your problem because I've worked through my problems enough to know you're not going to project that on me.

I know who I am and that's your issue.

That's all them trying to get a mirror back to their insecurities. Almost like they're like trying to get validation for how bad they feel.

And oftentimes people don't even know that they're going through that. So there's this balance of trying to allow for people to be a hater in some way because you know, they don't know any better in some ways.

But then you also have to be like on some level, go to therapy like you do gotta figure it out eventually.

Yeah, read a book. Like a self-help book. But that sounds like a cool idea for a song like, that's such a good name. I feel like that's going to catch a lot of people's attention. They're gonna be like, oh, it's Victoria, she's about to talk shit.

Kind of—oh my gosh, okay—this is hot news off the press. This is breaking news. In the song I say something about having to like, fix your face. It needs to be rearranged. And you know, when you say rearrange someone's face, it kind of sounds like you're punching them, right? That kind of sounds like a little violent.

But then after I sing that part, I've got a spoken part that's like. And I mean that in the nicest of ways.

That’s so you, too because, like, you were talking about wanting to be assertive, but, like, that's still a hard thing because you don't want it—like, for me at least—I don't want to come off as, like, an asshole.

It's like, let me be real bitchy, but also like, but in a nice way. But, you know, you know.

Speaking along the lines of Mean Girls. What's kind of your next big project?

So right now I'm just trying to do singles frequently. I've got one I wrote about my mom last year, and I probably will put that out for Mother's Day.

So that's coming up in a couple of months. And then after that, probably just try to do maybe 3 or 4 singles throughout the year. And Oakwalker has a new single coming out soon that I'm really happy with and really proud of.

Cool. And my favorite thing to ask artists: if you had all the time in the world, all the resources, what would be your dream project?

Oh my god, I would get so many backup singers. I would get a whole like cello, multiple violins situation going on, some flutes. It would be like Electric Light Orchestra. It would be like a rock pop song that also has strings in it. And everyone would get paid well and everyone would be happy and we'd take all the time we need to record, because we could pay the studio.

We can do all revisions. Because that's part of it, is just having to work with the time you have, because you don't want to be too meticulous because you can't afford to. And also, like we said earlier, you don't want to come off as a jerk or something, but you kind of have to at some point be like, okay, I'm paying a bunch of money to do this. I need to actually make it sound good or I just wasted it, you know? But that would be my dream project—would be like an ELO type project.

I totally see that for you. Like, you are such an inspiration for those like who might be shy but have star quality. I've always thought you were such a star. I’m dead ass serious and like you have a very special like aura about you. And you're a hard worker. And I really look up to you. And, I just want to thank you for coming on the show.

Thank you, Zack. And I feel the same way about you. You've always been publishing your poetry, and your art is so beautiful, and you've always been very kind to me. So thank you for having me.

Where to find Victoria Dowdy

Instagram: @msvictoriamusic

Spotify: Victoria Dowdy