Q&A: How to Choreograph a City with DeMarcus Suggs

Photo by D’Angelo Connell

DeMarcus Suggs—dancer, choreographer and the City of Memphis’s Director of Creative & Cultural Economy—is like really creative. Read the Q&A from our interview available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

ZACK ORSBORN:

So I'm joined by the creative powerhouse DeMarcus Suggs. DeMarcus is a dancer and he's the newly appointed Director of Creative and Cultural Economy for the City of Memphis. I learned about you through the Artist Listening Sessions. And I love that you're a dancer. And I wanted to pick your brain, so I had to have you on. So thanks for joining me.

DEMARCUS SUGGS:

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

ZO:

I read somewhere that your grandma was your first dance partner, and I really related to that because my grandma was my first dance partner. I have a vivid memory of when I was, like, five, and I was obsessed with Motown, and we would dance to Motown together. Was that your first start? Like, first glimpse of dance?

DS:

It was. Yeah. So it was at a wedding. I'm from a big family. And so there was, like, always weddings and things happening over the summers. But I was about four years old and was at a wedding with my mom. I'm the youngest of seven, and so I was the only kid.

You know, there's probably folks that were like, don't bring all your kids. And so she brought one. And my grandmother took me up from the table and said, you're going to dance with me. And so it was Whitney Houston, “I Wanna Dance with Somebody,” and we were jamming out, and I think that was my first glimpse of, like, what it was to be in my body.

And just to have a really good time, the joy. There was nothing that could go wrong around. Maybe there were drinks being spilled. I just remember that and then follow up with that. Like I just had invitations to be creative by my mom and my family. My grandmother was a huge part of that too.

So, yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I got a little misty when I think about that.

ZO:

I love grandma stuff. And so you danced with your grandma. What was kind of the next part of your creative journey? How did you become a performing dancer?

DS:

Well, then my sister was also a dancer, so she had, like, a hip hop team that would carry around a little boombox in the 90s.

They were serious about it. And I was a kid who: one, I was annoying, no doubt. But I would follow them around and just learn their dances and then perform them while they were doing them in the audience. So, I think that I always kind of saw that that was the most expressive and the most like me, you know, that I was and just being. Growing up in inner city Saint Paul, Minnesota, not really sure of my own identity, dance became kind of that vehicle, the arts.

And so I was at 14 years old, I was about to go to high school, and I wanted to go to an arts high school. And, there was like this draft kind of choice voucher program, and I wasn't able to go.

And so I like really immediately felt like something was lost.

ZO:

Crushing.

DS:

Yeah, exactly. And so my mom picked up on that and was like, you know what? We're going to move. And so we moved to a suburb where there was this immense opportunity to be in the arts and that like really kind of honed my love for creativity.

And I got to just experience all kinds of things. And so when I went to undergrad, you know, not thinking that that was a viable career—but I tried to study business. I tried to study education—elementary education. I realized that those also just didn't feel true to form for me. And then a mentor of mine said, why don't you try this dance class at the community college?

So, like, leave that, you know, serious business. Just go have fun. You're young. You have time.

And when I went into my first ballet class, it was blinders from there. And so that really—undergrad became, you know—like that was my career trajectory. And so I danced with companies from around the country. We traveled internationally and domestically.

Dayton Contemporary Dance Company was my best—or my biggest kind of formative, professional career or career space. And from there I went on to Dayton Ballet and different project work, with a number of entities. And so, yeah, dance was was huge.

And when I realized that I wanted to do something a little bit more—because it became a little bit challenging. I was looking at myself eight hours a day in the mirror and like, just really kind of having this moment of like, what else can I be doing in the world?

I was tutoring at the time, and so I was like, I'm doing something there. But then one of my students was incarcerated, and so I was on tour, and we came back and he was no longer at the program. And it really kind of shook me and was like, okay, I love this work, but there's something else I really want to be actively doing.

And it's doing something about the community. I also felt like artists in my company and other companies weren't represented as much as I wanted. And so there was this kind of advocacy thing that was boiling up in me. And so, yeah, I kind of took the leap and was like, let me see what else is there.

ZO:

Yeah. Let me be a community builder. Back to ballet. You said you had blinders on. What was it about ballet that like, inspired you?

DS:

I think it was that I had been an athlete in high school, too. And so there was this sense of rigor that I was used to, but it was not connected to like a bigger idea, ideation, or imagination.

I think that for me, ballet was this perfect blend of meditative practice. You start every class with a barre. It's very calm and soothing, and then you're focusing on your body and the inner workings—the turn out, the pointing of the foot, all of these things. You have these things that you're thinking about while also thinking like, how do I tell a story in this movement?

And, the story for me was you know, like, I'm a prince and I'm in this castle. So how do I say that I’m all of these things? It became this vehicle of using my body to really think about—what were the messages I was conveying to the world, and what did I want to say.

ZO:

I love that. I'm a big believer in exercise. And being physical is a really huge driver of creative energy. And there’s like tons of research about it. How do you think, like being an athlete, being rigorous with exercise and movement—how do you think that fuels your creativity?

DS:

Yeah, I think that—I mean, blood flow first and foremost. Like something about having blood flow and oxygen. And so it's breath. It's like, I don't know, I'm not a, ki—? What is the word?

ZO:

Kinesiologist?

DS:

Thank you! The class that I had the hardest time with.

ZO:

Don’t even get me started on body science.

DS:

So, you know, I'm not a doctor in that regard. But I think there is something with breath and movement and activation.

And so also, to me, connecting the brain to that, and being really intentional around ideating and giving yourself permission to kind of flow in that. I think that there's something there. When I was a dancer, it became apparent that so much of my life had been like, thinking about my body as the vehicle for my brain as opposed to like, just get me around to this class, get me to this class, you know? And it's like, no, no, like, we get to be in our bodies. You get to really have an in-moment experience if you choose to, you know, and so I think it was eye opening for me that it took me going to four years of college and having a career to really be anchored in that work. And I think that—to demystify that—I think it’s accessible to all of us.

ZO:

Yeah. It is. Even just like a ten minute walk can like really get ideas flowing. It doesn't have to be like kill yourself at the gym type stuff. It can be really easy.

Did you ever choreograph?

DS:

Yeah, absolutely.

ZO:

So is there like, a project or a piece that really sticks out to you that you feel like is your best work?

DS:

I would say that one of my favorite pieces was working with four young black women at Cleveland School of the Arts. I was commissioned to do a work for them, and it was called “Of Clearing and Of Calling.”

ZO:

That’s a great name.

DS:

And, I don't know how I got to it, but the work: I used music from Celia Cruz. I used John Baptiste and Nina Simone. And there was this piece called Eretz Zavat Chalav [by Nina Simone] , but it's like a Jewish folk dance that was really one of those songs that she wasn't well known for, but it just had this, like, just very, like, mantra-esque, moment for me. And it was saying—the translation was, something about like, we're going to the land flowing with milk and honey.

And for these young women, I just wanted to take them through this experience of being strong, but also being really soft and like, this freedom, you know? So all of my work has always had this redemptive kind of quality about it, that you go through a struggle and it's not necessarily happy ever after, but it's like, we're going towards something better, you know?

I think that I apply that kind of to my life. And so that was a really meaningful moment for.

ZO:

It sounds like the creative process, like the creative journey, struggling to come up with ideas, a lack of resources but knowing that you're working towards something.

DS:

Yeah, I love that.

ZO:

So I'm kind of a project process nerd. I love like talking to artists about how they start with an idea, the middle, and the end. Yeah. So with this piece how did you make decisions? How did you organize everything?

DS:

So I knew that I wanted to utilize chairs. So we had a set. I had four young black women.

I was thinking a lot about the Birmingham bombing in impetus, but I also never like to—I think one of my roles as an artist and as an organizer, as a practitioner of administration, is that I want to be honest, but I also want to honor the folks that I get to think about or convey messages around.

And so the honoring for me was to humanize and not to lean into tragedy. It was like, so what is it to be a young woman in this space and to have challenges and be in this sense of this connected journey from the Civil Rights Movement, but then also then to be like—at the time these young women were like 14, 15 year old girls—who just like want to dance and have a good time, you know, and not a good time, like frivolously, but just live a full and complete joyful life.

ZO:

Yeah, express themselves. I love that. So to your community organizing, how did you get that started? How did you connect with the artists? What was your drive behind that?

DS:

Yeah, I immediately went into institutional work. And so I worked for a presenter called Dayton Live. Well, at the time was called Victoria Theater Association.

So when I left dance, I was working in youth development for a nonprofit for young men. And loved that work and recognized that, like, I have no boundaries because I'm like, just love and availability and yes, we can do it.

And so I learned quickly.

ZO:

Gotta have structure sometimes unfortunately.

DS:

Yeah, yeah! And I learned that this organization was not going to provide that structure for me because I wasn't going to let it because I really was all in, but then, when I moved on to Dayton Live, I got to really connect with—I was a community and education outreach coordinator.

And so my job was to really work with communities to bring them to the theater, to make sure that kids—we had like 26,000 kids that we brought to the theater, much like what I see, with our presenters here, the Orpheum.

ZO:

Yeah! I used to work there. The education program at the Orpheum, which is run by, Jennifer McGrath—she has completely transformed the education program. She’s a powerhouse.

DS:

And I told her—I know Jen really well, and I say, like, I didn't do half the things that you do. But we were doing some impactful work, you know? And recognizing communities really want the invitation.

They want to feel welcome. They want a sense of belonging, but they also want high quality arts experiences that are transformative, you know? I think just being in that zeitgeist—I had a really great director, Gary Minyard, in Dayton that was just really intent on making the most impact. And so I think that has kind of translated into my intentionality around, okay, yes, I can make the invitation, but it has to be from a genuine spirit of welcome.

And folks should belong. I don't want to invite you in to harm, you know. So I want to invite people into experiences and into community and into work and in processes and offerings that when you get in there, you're like, okay, I should be here and I can relax, I can let down my hair.

ZO:

Belong. Yeah, let down my hair, too.

DS:

Let down all our coils.

ZO:

So as a community organizer and working in institutions, how did you keep your creative practice alive?

DS:

So, you know, part of it was in my kitchen, to be honest. I hear music, I see movement. And so it was a little bit of that, but it was also that I was—my friends were still inviting me into their pieces.

They're like, hey, we know you're not done. And so I was able to still gig and that felt for a number of years—I felt really, really good to be able to still have a practice, but I think now it's just going to class. And so taking Saturday morning ballet class here and there feels like that's the thing that I get to still kind of keep the engine flowing, but, yeah, I still create in my house.

Kendrick Lamar is in my head. I've been in a chokehold and I just keep seeing movement from his new album, GNX.

ZO:

Interesting. So like, what kind of movement? What about that album inspires you?

DS:

I think it is lyricism, for sure, but I think it's something I mean, the music itself. I think if you didn't even have his words on top. It just does something for me.

It sounds like heart beats and it sounds like, you know, like just these different inspirations that I'm sure that I if I dug more deeply into it, I could hear the actual elements that are inspiring me, but, yeah, it's just something about that.

ZO:

And when you have all these inspirations and ideas, how do you organize it and make it tangible?

DS:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think when you say organize, my first thought is like, I do prioritize things based on what is needed of me and what do I really want to do right now.

And so right now, the work of the Office—you know, we just launched the Office of Creative and Cultural Economy for the City of Memphis. And that work feels like it's life giving and it feels important, you know, in the sense of creating systems and things like that. So my 9 to 5, well, I mean, jokingly, it's like every day of the week, I'm pretty much working in some way and with some balance and things like that.

But I think the priority feels like, how do I get to be connected to the creative spaces in the community right now? And then I think organizing these—like I'm also constantly structuring what this piece would look like if I were to do a piece with some of Kendrick's work.

I've been thinking a lot about Eddie Floyd, too, who's a Stax artist. But he has this piece called Big Bird, and I just like—it's one of those other ones I can't shake right now. So it's like in my body. And I'm thinking a lot about what does movement look like to juxtapose like a Kendrick work with Eddie Floyd and what would I be saying.

And it feels like—right now it's a one man show, you know, because I mean, I don't have any dancers under me and right around me on my flank, but yeah. So I'm also inspired by the fact that, in this kind of iterative space of dreaming and thinking about what another work would look like that. I just have the freedom to say like, I'm not done.

You know, if I want to keep rolling and keep creating, I can do that. But right now, today, it doesn't feel like—that's not the priority for me today.

ZO:

So do you have any habits that you do to keep you productive, energized? You mentioned the word meditation and mantra. Do you meditate or contemplate? What are your habits?

DS:

My mornings are mine. So I wake up about 5:00, 6:00 some mornings.

And it is amazing how long it actually takes me to be coherent and, like, here, but coffee does help me. So I have a practice of journaling, of setting an intention for the day. And usually I have a mantra. I also think that's probably why Kendrick and I are rocking so hard because there's some life giving, just like words that he's giving.

It's just like he believes in himself. And I'm like, me too, you know?

ZO:

Yeah, I’m gonna make a mantra and affirm my own self. I love journaling. I journal every morning because it externalize all my worries and anxieties. Gives me ideas. So how does journaling help you?

DS:

It does chronicle where I am in that day. And it also does get it out of my head. And so, I'm a Gemini.

ZO:

Me too!

DS:

Okay! Twin power. I am naturally extroverted. Not every Gemini is an extrovert, but I'm naturally extroverted, but there's also a very—a sacred inner voice for me that I feel that I have not always honored. And so that's when I'm in, like, not, you know, aligned.

ZO:

Frustrated. That’s how I feel when I don’t honor that voice.

DS:

Yes, for sure. And so, journaling helps me to honor the voice in the subconscious. But it's also like a prayer, you know, like, Paul Laurence Dunbar—in the “Sympathy” poem, which is one of my favorite poems, which is the poem that coined “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings.” And he says it like, I know why the caged bird sings. It's a plea and a prayer that he sings from his heart's deep core. And so to me, writing it out is like a prayer. And so it kind of mirrors my actual prayers, you know, and not to push my faith, but like, I have a spiritual practice as well.

So I think that having the journaling, having this mantra and this meditation, it feels like it's more like me getting into like a rhythmic space for myself. And then this prayer that—I am so dependent on a higher power.

ZO:

Me too. Take it all away.

DS:

Help me get through it!

ZO:

And you mentioned poetry. I love reading poetry. I read two poems a day from just like, different sources. What does poetry do for you? How does it inspire you?

DS:

I didn't think of myself as a literary person. Growing up I thought that I was kinesthetic, for sure.

But when I got to English classes and things like that, poetry was that bridge for me of creativity and of using words and language. And so I think that was actually like the way that I became someone that was more interested in communication. And it was like, oh, like I could say it in a poem.

My mom is a writer, too. She wrote poems, but she didn't take it—I mean, she thought that they were meaningful, but like, not serious. You know, like that was just something she did. And I got to watch her write poems.

And she wrote this poem called “Ode to My Sisters” that, at the last line of it was like, cast wide your net, my sisters, for even the butterfly has to land.

ZO:

Chills.

DS:

Yo. And I thought bars!

But it's just like one of those revered lines for me. And so I think that just watching the—in observing the simplicity of her being able to make that, you know, those lines happen and to do it in a way that didn't—

In one way, I felt like I was introduced to language and to the creative writing as though you had to have the gift, you know? And I didn't feel like I had the gift, but my mom did. But she was such a simple, elegant woman. I was like, oh, well, I guess anybody can really do it, you know?

So that demystified it for me.

ZO:

So talking about moms. Big fan of my mom, she's my biggest cheerleader, has always supported my creativity. What are other ways that your mom has instilled your creative journey?

DS:

Yeah. I mean, besides letting this queer kid just kind of be. And then also when I became of-age, she's like, you know, I was worried about you. I just didn't know what to do with you—I just knew I had to love you, you know?

And so I think loving me. I think that folks underestimate the value of care and of empowering freedom. But mom was also a coach. Like, she is a “if I can't figure it out, we're going to figure it out, we're going to get to the solution” kind of person.

And so she always my biggest champion around like math. She's like, well we have to find the formula. Like there's got to be a trick formula. You know that like everyone knows that. We'll make this easier.

And I mean, she was right in many of those regards. But then also, just giving me one liners of life. Before I knew Malcolm X had said that, she was like, you know, if you don't stand for anything, you fall for everything.

So, I carry that with me. And so when I was in middle school, high school while folks were really, I think, experiencing challenges with their identity and who they were becoming, I was [experiencing challenges]—but I was also very sure in some ways because mom's encouragement and coaching.

ZO:

Yeah. When I came out to my mom, I was like 14. And, I was telling her, like, kids are picking on me for being gay at school. And she was like, well, are you? And I was like, well, I’m bisexual—you know, just to like, soften the blow a little bit. And she was like, well, I've always known. I love you no matter what. A lot of people don't have that. And it can really stunt people's growth.

DS:

Absolutely.

ZO:

And you were talking about your mom having solutions. And it makes me think: as the Director of Creative and Cultural Economy, what are some issues that you see in the artistic community and how are you finding solutions?

DS:

Yeah. So I mean, I love this question. Because it doesn't feel like it's like, well, what are your five initiatives that you’re working on—you know, like there's a freedom to it.

But I respect the need, the request for a plan and some actionable items because this office is overdue.

ZO:

You’re making history. It’s crazy.

DS:

But I think that some of the solutions that we're looking at are really in the things that Mayor Young has already outlined in terms of his priorities.

I think the arts for me—this is slightly an aside, but the arts for me gave me a VOICE.

And that's an acronym for Vision. It gave me a sense of Order. It gave me Imagination, it gave me Courage, and it gave me Excellence. And I think that that voice is the transferables, or are the transferables that I think apply to every issue in every area. And some of the priorities that we're looking at in our city are like, how do we engage youth?

Like not only engagement but development, like what do you do when you have someone's attention and move them towards what? You know, we have an amazing youth services division—led by Brian Harris—they are doing so much to make sure youth are empowered and they're enlisting after high school, or they're finding entrepreneurship, or they're enrolling into post-secondary education.

So there's this plan of like, how do we move them through? I think that an education is incomplete without creativity.

And so how do we also foster a sense of self and a sense of voice with folks? I think that we have an opportunity to empower many people who are already doing important creative youth development.

You know, we have this organization called Young Artists Guild. We have Memphis Music Initiative. We have, just there's so many—Ballet Memphis, their student program. Phenomenal. I'm, of course, a dancer. So, things that have dance peek my ear first and then like, okay, what else is going on?

New Ballet Ensemble. So there's just a lot of great work going on in that way. And I want to be able to not only invest it, but also amplify it, you know, because I think what you don't know, you don't know.

And so there's youth development. I think there's also an area around like crime and making our neighborhoods more beautiful and safer at the same time that the arts inherently offer solutions towards because it's like, well, if you're part of a process that is thinking about your particular space as worth investment and beautiful, and there's something about the magic of who you are and the folks that are in proximity to you.

Anasa Troutman, who's at The Big We, would say that like, that's where culture is made. And I wholeheartedly agree. And so, we're looking at creating an opportunity for a culture shift. One-on-One is what we're calling it, but it's a creative strategy. And so how do artists get to be strategists in their neighborhoods? And so a curriculum around that, but also just fostering the opportunities for folks to do that.

ZO:

So as artists, we like inherently see beautiful things. How do you talk to people, encourage people, who don't really think about beauty? How do you inspire them to see something that's beautiful?

DS:

That's a really good one. I try to just be in the moment. And so I'm trying to think of an exact experience because I also think that sometimes, you know, there's this sense of dichotomy like where I didn't see myself in poetry. And so sometimes people don't see themselves in beauty and creativity. And I think that, I just try to live the moment and invite folks into it.

But when I was living—most recently, I lived in Minnesota, and I have a group of five of us young men—youngish men—and my friends are like amazing humans, but they're not artists.

Part of me is like, part advocate, but sometimes I'm like, I don't want to advocate in every space that I'm in. So, I didn't invite them to some events and they were like, where are you going? I'm like, I'm going to a ballet or going to a show. They’re like, tell us about these things.

And so when I started inviting them, they would recognize that there were moments where they could engage with the work. And so my questioning—I learned this line of questioning from my work at the National Center for Choreography—how do you assess, art, dance work? Because dance is sometimes the hardest to kind of connect with.

You're like, what did the gestures mean? And so I would ask folks like, how would you describe what you saw in a word or phrase? And however you describe that, that's what the dance was about for you. That's what you got, you know?

And it's just like watching a film and engaging with the film and being like, yeah, well the film was about this and this and this. Sometimes that's right. But sometimes the—I mean, and not that there is right or wrong—but sometimes the filmmaker is trying to get you to see and to experience something different than what you actually saw in experience. And so I think that there is no wrong answer.

And demystifying right or wrong, in that binary, like I think that that's an important invitation for me to just to allow folks to experience beauty and to see what you see and to really value that and honor it as like expertise.

ZO:

Yeah, I love that. And I agree with you 100%. I feel like a lot of the art world has become inaccessible because of all the art criticism and the price tag of how much art cost. How do you think you can make creativity accessible?

DS:

So there's a value because you're kind of touching on market, you know.

And I think that artists work has value. And I mean, we could talk about like the systems and structures behind that, that are not always on the up and up, in my opinion, and doesn't put the artists first.

I do think that having art that is accessible in price range and introducing people—and I haven't quite figured out the code, to crack that, of how do we introduce folks besides offering more opportunities to purchase maybe visual art or to engage in performance art?

To experience literary art? So I think that the low hanging fruit for me is creating experiences where we drive market, where you can purchase, you can experience the work. And so how do we do that with a sense of making it accessible to the widest possible audience? Which for me is Memphis.

You know, that every person in Memphis should be able to access a creative experience, whether it's a class or whether it's a performance or you either get to be the practitioner or you get to be the audience. It should be within ten minutes of your house, you know? And so we have the the duty of making that a possibility for folks.

ZO:

I cannot wait to see what comes of that. And, so you've been doing Artist Listening Sessions. Which are really cool. How many have you done so far?

DS:

We've done two, with the plan for five.

ZO:

So what have one of those been like? What is the structure behind that? What are you hearing?

DS:

So one of the reasons that I launched the Artist Listening Sessions is because I inherited a bit of data—so the Office didn't just form out of like, oh and now we have an idea! Like, there's been decades of work. I mean, we can go beyond our Stax Music, beyond the Brooks Museum being formed. Like, there's just been a lot of residents deeply invested in having arts experiences here and recognizing that coastal places—like, you know, San Francisco and New York and LA—they should not be the only people that have high quality arts experiences in their their neighborhoods.

And so this Office was formed out of that. But what I found in the research that I had inherited was that there was a lot of talk about the artists and the importance of artists in our community. But I didn't hear directly whose voice. It just felt like a very umbrella voice of who the artist was.

And so I wanted to know, who are these people that I get to support and work with?

ZO:

Artists are so fascinating. I love artists more than I like being an artist.

DS:

Because they're so cool! You learn from someone's process, and it is amazing. But I also wanted to hear what makes—so there's research that was done in 2006 by the former chair Doctor Maria Rosario Jackson and her team at Urban Institute. And they had looked at arts sectors. And we're exploring like—the researchers call it investing in creativity—what makes a sector hospitable for artists to live and thrive? And what they found was that there were six dimensions, if you will, that they point to the success of that.

Validation is one of those.

ZO:

That's one of my first reasons I like, thought I was doing arts because I needed external validation.

DS:

No, I hear it. Oh my gosh, thank you for sharing that.

Validation. There's market and demand that points to whether or not you can have a viable career if there's a market for your work.

Which is just like appetite—and appetite that translates into commerce. There is professional development and training. Can you continue to grow in a given market, have material support? Are there grants? Are there any investment loans for an artist? Are there networks for you to connect with other folks that are doing what you're doing or maybe something different?

And so you're talking about like just loving to be around artists. I love it. And so often we don't think about artists as peer-to-peer network, like as being as valuable as it is sometimes. We don't think about it. I can't say everyone.

And then last but not least is information.

Is there a system of information sharing? And can folks access your information about you, and can you access information about other things happening in the arts and entertainment space? And so I wanted to understand one: Memphis's hospitability for folks who are artists and creative entrepreneurs, because I think what this Office also gets to focus on is that one: the fact that artists are 3.6 more likely to self-identify as an entrepreneur than any other sector.

And so there's already inherently this like economic interest for me. I'm like, wow, okay. So if we're creatives and we're also, you know, business owners essentially, like what is the space doing for us to make it viable for us to sustain our careers here?

ZO:

To be a full-time artist. Which is the dream.

DS:

Yeah, yeah. Which is the dream for most, I would say. Some of us appreciate the— what do they call it? Diverse income streams is like…let me get....which I respect either one. But I think that the opportunity—and this was coined by Dr. Antonio Kyler—he says that creative justice is the ability for one to live a creative and expressive life on their own terms.

And so does an artist want a full time gig as an artist? Absolutely. If that's the dream, like, you should be able to make that happen. Whether it's in one market or multiple, you know?

The Listening Sessions have formed out of that wanting to understand that. And so the framing, I think our approach for it was that I didn't want to bring this into a room and say, what's been wrong? So it could be a very therapeutic session. And I am not equipped to offer therapy to anyone. I know a good one, but I am not equipped to do it.

And so I wanted to frame it from a space of strengths because I don't believe Memphis is lacking creative genius.

And so with all of the brilliance that we have in this city, what are the conversations that we need to have? What has been working and what do we want more of? That's kind of the framing. And it's from an appreciative inquiry model. So it starts with discovery: what is? It moves towards dreaming.

Then from that dreaming—the dreaming is like, what do we want more of? And then you get to design it. And so I think what is kind of like secret—not so secret part of the work is that I'm inviting folks into this co-design process of creating, what are the initiatives that the Office focuses on?

ZO:

What are some of the ideas you've heard that, like really something you haven't heard before or piqued your interest?

DS:

In our last conversation in market and demand, it was apparent that—what I was really surprised to hear is that the institutional validation that comes for an artist getting to partner with an Urban Arts Commission or with a Music Export Memphis or the Ballet—those really are a like badge of honor.

So there is not this divide of, well, I'm an individual versus I'm an institution. It's like, no, no, no, no, I'm an individual who chooses to work with institutions when the partnership aligns. And so, I don't know, I just didn't think about that as an angle. But I also heard this idea around, we as Memphians have a hard time marketing our work in the city, but also outside of the city.

And so this idea from IMAKEMADBEATS was like, you know, what does it look like to invest towards just marketing and professionally strengthening not just individual one-to-ones, but across a sector? And that's something that I'm exploring as well.

ZO:

How do you think artists can promote themselves?

DS:

To me, there's a way for every artist to customize a marketing strategy for them, and it goes back to on your own terms, like this creative life on your own terms. So one of the things that—when I was at the National Center of Choreography in Akron, my director—whom I actually serve on the board now—and so my mentor became like my colleague. Christy Bolingbroke has this phenomenal approach to customizing or creating an administrative practice that mirrors or actually supports your creative practice.

And I think that artists get to choose, how do you want to market, or how focused of a marketing strategy do you want to have? Do you want weekly posts? Do you want daily? Do you want your visuals to have like a particular brand identity? We know like when a brand is consistent and you just kind of get it, you get a feel for who they are just from visuals. Even if they're a songwriter, when it all works together in lockstep, then they become a believable and a really marketable artist.

And so I think that there's the opportunity for us—for Memphians, not necessarily for us—because I don't think that's necessarily the weeds of the focus and the work that I want to be in. But I do think that that is the opportunity to customize those kind of marketing [strategies] and different aspects of the administration—if you want to be a do-it-yourself kind of artist.

I've met with Corey Lu and Da Village, who I think are one of the most phenomenal artists. They bridge the gap for me because I'm an old head. I love, like, the soul music of Stax.

I am that classic tourist like, yeah, give me some blues, you know, but I also really love original content. And so they do that for me. They're one of those bands that do that for me. We were talking about Corey being the marketing director, the booking agent, you know, the band leader.

Well, actually he has a music director, but like, he just wears a lot of hats in his band that we don't really account for when we're looking at a band. And so, do you want to do all that or not? Like making those decisions on a customized basis.

ZO:

Yeah, like which hats do I want to wear? Two more questions. So you're talking about consistency. In my research about artists and trying to like get out of burnout and creative slumps, the one thing I've learned is consistency is like truly the most important thing. And it's hard to stay consistent. As an artist personally and what you've learned, how do you think that artists can stay consistent?

DS:

I think it is writing it out. And so like going back to like my 5 a.m. being up, you know, that is not my true ministry to be honest. Like that is not who I have shown up in the world as. I love a go with the flow. Like get to it, you know. Is it important? Is it due tomorrow? Like let's go there. That's important now, and so I think the consistency kind of goes back to that voice, that vision. It's the order. It's the: okay, if you want to get to that destination, which could be a recording contract or you want to get an agent for your visual art, you have to have a system or a process that you're committed to that will enable you to get there.

And so understanding what is the “there” that you want to reach, and committing to that process. And so I think the consistency can be as frequent as weekly, but it has to be something that you're actually committed to. And I would argue—and other self-help folks—I also listen to a lot of audiobooks.

ZO:

Lots of self-help. I’ve torn through some self-help.

DS:

Yeah! So, folks would say that if it doesn't ring true for you, if it doesn't really wake you up in the morning—it's beyond passion. It is, how can I move from this like, oh, this feel good. It feels right.

ZO:

Like, energized.

DS:

Yeah. Energized. One of my new commitments is like, I want to live a long time. It wasn't like I didn't want to live a long time before, but I'm really focused on that.

So, like, do I want to go to the gym? I don't want to. I really don't want to, but I am going to because I am the person who goes to the gym and that is the identity that I have adopted because I want to live a long time. I want my physical health to match my my mental vigor.

ZO:

That sounds like Atomic Habits. Did you ever read that?

DS:

Yes, that's exactly it.

ZO:

Like, I never identified as a morning person, but now I do. I truly love the quiet of the morning. And I also identified as someone who didn't go to the gym. And now I'm like, I go to the gym every other day because it makes me feel so good. It has truly helped reduce depression so much. I will preach exercise. Okay. So last question.

My favorite question to ask artists, if you had all the time, all the resources, all the energy, what would be your dream project?

DS:

I think my dream project would be—in a way I feel like I kind of do this on a low scale or actually maybe not so much, but my dream project would be choreographing an entire region, or like a city, and like thinking about movement across a space.

And so even in my work on stages, I think about the traffic that happens, the flow of directional exchange. What does it mean to stay in space.? And so to choreograph is really to map movement. And when I zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom out, like what does it look like to choreograph a neighborhood of multiple people moving in one direction and then, you know, another movement and then like, we're doing the gestures here, so that would be like a really cool project.

ZO:

Holy bleep. That is genius.

DS:

Oh, man!

ZO:

Zooming out and having different people in different areas of the town doing stuff at the same time, that's really cool. So I want to thank you for coming on the show. I think you're really inspirational and you're making history and you're so intelligent and smart, and I really can't wait to see what you do.

So thanks for being creative.

DS:

Yes, we gotta!