Q&A: How to How to Turn a Depression Spiral into a Goddess Anthem with Rachel Maxann

Rachel Maxann

Rachel Maxann, artist and musician, is like really creative. Read the Q&A from our interview available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

ZACK ORSBORN: So I'm joined by Rachel Maxann and Rachel is a phenomenal vocalist, musician, and performer. And I learned about you through Victoria Dowdy, who's an angel.

RACHEL MAXANN: We love her.

ZACK: And then I listened to your album, Black Fae, which I was really stunned by because first of all, I love fae stuff.

RACHEL: Me too.

ZACK: And fairies were my thing growing up, and I just had to have you on. So thanks for joining me.

RACHEL: Thank you so much for having me. And I really appreciate you listening to the album.

ZACK: Yeah, it was lovely. Goddess was—it was just that thud and it being ethereal and the synths. It was amazing. What was the idea behind that album? And talk me through the process of how you created it?

RACHEL: Right. So the album itself, it felt like a collection of pieces, almost since I think the first song on it, I had written maybe in college. It's something that had been in the vaults, per se, or done in different ways. But the way I created the album and even the way I have the track listing, it's very much an exploration of my mental health. How I felt about the world, how I see the world. How I feel the world sees me.

And a lot of it is actually done with the idea of it's a depressive spiral, because I have—that's not something you could poof away, but depression for all of my life and the way that I've been able to track my spirals is that usually there's a thought, there's intrusive thought that turns into maybe contemplation, and it can get to a very dark place, but it can also come out having learned something new about myself.

So that's kind of how the album has flowed. And I just talked to somebody about this the other day. They asked why wasn't Goddess up in the front, that was the single that was the biggest and the one I released first. I'm like, well, that's not where the depressive spiral usually lands. It doesn't start off with me feeling like a goddess.

ZACK: It's linear.

RACHEL: Definitely doesn't start off with me feeling like a goddess, but it's something that I'm like, by the time you get to Goddess, it's like, oh, okay, I can have gone to this depressive spiral, through this anxiety and so on and so forth, and I'm still a goddess throughout the whole thing. I just didn't know it.

ZACK: Yes, I could definitely tell it was a concept album, because one thing I appreciated was it was an album. It was 56 minutes. It's a true album. Was that important for you to have a larger body of work?

RACHEL: It was. It's the first album that I've fully done by myself. I mean, I had a great producer and great musicians on. But before when I made albums, I feel like there was a lot more input from either the band I was with at the time or just whatever. But this was a fully—I'm making all the decisions. I like this there. And I don't like that there. It felt very much like me going out into the world.

ZACK: And did you record all of it within a few months, or what was the actual process of making it like the work of it? What was the studio time like?

RACHEL: Oh, gosh. It's hard to say definitely, probably over the course of six months, maybe a year really to have the whole thing beginning to end. But the recording process was I take the songs that I have, and we lay them down and then my amazing producer, Doug would add his symphonics, like in Goddess, all those little beats and the noises and whatnot.

So that in itself took some time, and then going back because like many creatives, it is hard for me to finish something where I'm just like, but what if we just tweaked that or added that. And some of those we did and then some of those we just had to accept because it could have been longer. That was me editing down the album and the length of some of the songs and just the tracks in general. But yeah, it could have been a lot longer, but it was a pretty long process.

ZACK: And with songs, do you start with lyrics or do you start with melodies? What's your beginning, middle and end of creating a single song?

RACHEL: Right. More often than not, it'll all come at once. Which is, from what I've heard, a fairly unique way to go about it, but it comes from an emotion. It comes from an experience. And then it's just me sitting down, and it usually comes all at once where I'll think of the melody and then the words just seem to fit within that melody. It all comes out together.

ZACK: I love that, and for that to happen, you have to be at a creatively balanced place. I feel like, how do you keep that creativity open to receiving those kind of moments where it all happens at once?

RACHEL: Well, it's making sure that I give myself time for that input, that creative input that then turns into the output and the art and whatnot. But even recently I've had a lot of shows and a lot of traveling, which has been amazing. And now I'm giving myself time to settle and enjoy those experiences and reflect on those experiences. So it's finding almost that work life balance, because if I just keep on playing shows, there's never time to write. If I never slow down and stop, I can't think, so much has happened. I can't put it into words if I don't ever slow down. So it's finding that balance, because I love playing shows. I love being on the go, but I also know myself well enough that if I don't get that rest, if I don't get that time to be creative, I'm going to start resenting it.

ZACK: And burning out.

RACHEL: Ugh. I don't want to do that.

ZACK: Creative burnout is real. Back to Black Fae—I wanted to ask what was the fae imagery about? What made you want to call it that and what inspires you about the fae?

RACHEL: Oh my gosh. Okay. So many different aspects of it. I mean, I just love fairies. I love mythical creatures and fantasy. And even this is pre kind of the controversial stuff of Lord of the Rings or even Little Mermaid. It's just Black people are often ignored or just completely written out of these fantastical elements. So first and foremost, I am a Black fairy. I encompass the things of the fae in that way. Secondary. There is a concept of black fae—kind of the maybe the dark or evil fae. Because there's Tinkerbell. But people who look into fairies know that they can go to very dark places sometimes as creatures. And I wanted to nod to that as well as, okay, yes, there is the fantastical elements, but there's also the darkness that we need to address about being fae.

ZACK: And along with fae, there's some queerness in fae. Which that's my favorite part about it. Does queerness—is that involved in your creativity or art?

RACHEL: Yes, yes. The first song I think of which actually will be probably on the next album or EP. There's a song called Keep Me in Mind, where I talk about my experience of falling in love with two people at the same time, and they ended up getting married and very cute hetero relationship and congrats to them. But it was a struggle.

ZACK: Sounds like a TV show.

RACHEL: I know, right. But yeah. So it does come into place. Quite a bit. But as I've talked about in previous interviews, sometimes it's not so obvious at the forefront. But me speaking from my experience is still inherently a queer song. It's still inherently a queer experience. My Black joy, my queer joy. It comes through the songs, even if it's not a Chappell Roan level of obvious. It's just kind of my experience with it.

ZACK: And one thing I forgot to mention is that you are a therapist.

RACHEL: Yes.

ZACK: I love that. I love a creative therapist. Tell me what led you to study that and how do you think it impacts your creativity?

RACHEL: Oh, man. In so many ways. I think I really realized that I wanted to be a therapist, probably in high school. Because I was always fascinated by the human mind and just ideas, psychology and so on and so forth. But I was able to find applications to myself, which not only really helped my own mental health, but helped me understand the world around me and have more empathy for it. So that, of course, has been within the creative process as well. And the empathy for myself and for others. But as far as that career goes, it's also one of those careers that I can do both. I never felt like I had to choose between pursuing psychology or pursuing music because I'm like, well, they feel so intertwined to me.

ZACK: Why is that?

RACHEL: Well, a lot of songwriting, I would say for myself and probably a lot of other writers, is self reflection. It is thinking, our thought processes, or at the very least, it's a cathartic experience. So for me, it's when I tell my clients hey, go reflect on this, journal, write about it, see how you feel. There's been times where I'll write a song and I have the emotions, but then I listen to it later and be like, oh, my God, I didn't even realize I was really struggling with this. I didn't even realize it until I put it out there. So I feel like they're intertwined in that way. And then as a career, it's just the flexibility of the job is really helpful. Because I can see clients during the day and play a show at night. I can even work around my schedule and their schedule. And because it's all about emoting. It's all about reflection to me, it's like. Yeah, no, these go hand in hand, for sure.

ZACK: Have you ever had any clients that are artists or creatives?

RACHEL: I have, I have, and it's nice to have a bit of self-disclosure in the room. I wouldn't necessarily tell them, go follow me and be like, oh, my God, we're so similar. But it's just, I can see where you're coming from sometimes.

ZACK: And you don't have to go into it, but what is the common struggle you see with your artistic clients, if they're talking about art?

RACHEL: Oh gosh. Definitely self-doubt comes up a lot. Confidence. I mean, I think creatives as a whole tend to deal with a lot of depression and anxiety. So there's a lot of that, and also just the feeling of validation comes up a lot, especially for younger artists or even bigger artists who are just like, oh, I just want someone to recognize me. And I'm like, okay, well, let's talk about that. Where does that need come from? Because there's a base level of okay, we're artists. We want people to see our stuff. We want, so on and so forth. But then there's also like, okay, but that validation part, let's explore that. Let's see where did that come from outside of just the performance aspect. Where are you missing that? So things like that.

ZACK: What are some techniques or practices you use to help them to overcome self-doubt and search that validation?

RACHEL: Gosh. It really depends on the person. But it always tends to begin with self-reflection and asking the tough questions. Like I was saying before, where do you think that comes from? And if you aren't feeling that confident, it's like, okay, well, let's see if we can identify the things that we do feel confident where we do, what we do, enjoy about ourselves. So that's always a good base. But again, it tends to be tailored to each person because people will seek validation for a million different reasons. So it depends.

ZACK: When you've dealt with self-doubt and trying to find out that need for validation, what have you learned about yourself through that?

RACHEL: Goodness. Well, for one, I've learned that when I am seeking validation from other people, it usually means that there's something I'm not giving myself, whether that be time, boundaries, even self validation to give myself that praise, to be able to do reflect and sit down and be thankful to myself, and praise myself and give that accomplishment some praise, like, hey, you did a lot this year. Good job. Before you strive for the next thing, can we take a moment and enjoy that about ourselves? Because we too often again as creatives just run right by it. We'll do something big and then the next gig is up, the next whatever's up. And we're already preparing for that instead of enjoying the moment. So I've definitely learned I need to pause more and give myself a little more love on things.

ZACK: I love that, and I would consider you a star on the rise. You're gaining popularity, you're in the press. You have a big show coming up with the Memphis Grizzlies. How is this success impacting you? Are you living your dream? How are you feeling about all this success?

RACHEL: Wow. I am so thrilled to be asked that question. Because it just makes me feel like, oh, my gosh, thank you. It's just very validating. Thank you. It feels great. My vision of success has changed over the years, as I think it often does where as a kid, you're like, I want to be Beyoncé. I still want to be Beyoncé.

ZACK: I want to be Gaga.

RACHEL: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

ZACK: Yes. Beyoncé, Gaga and Britney were my top three naturally.

RACHEL: Yeah 100%. So when my focus kind of shifted from being a star and those lofty ideals still to connection and collaboration and community—that is, it's still the concept that sometimes some days I struggle with but to me that feels like a lot more success than the idea of being big and famous. I get to play music with my friends, I get decently paid for it. I get to travel because of it. That is a dream to me. Will bigger things happen? Maybe, that'd be cool. But at the same time, the way I'm performing and doing shows and able to do what I do. Yeah, it feels really successful.

ZACK: I love that. And I was reading that you consider yourself postmodern folk. And that makes sense because you care about connection. And folk music is very intimate and it's very narrative driven. What led you to want to explore folk music and indie music?

RACHEL: Yeah. I think probably the beginning of the love came from my mom. She raised us on bluegrass and the older country music and folk music. So I think that influence was always there. And for years I think I've already been writing folk music but didn't have the words for it, had the label for it because being a Black musician, it was like, oh, you're kind of a singer songwriter or something like that. I never had gotten the label of folk. But as a side of exploring what folk was and what it was about and the type of music was made from it. I'm like, no, that is folk music.

ZACK: Black people started folk music.

RACHEL: 100%. Oh my gosh. Yes. It is so beautiful to see that becoming so much more well known and recognized as fact.

ZACK: Yeah. And I mentioned the Grizzlies show. How did that come about? What are your feelings on performing in such a huge venue?

RACHEL: Right. So this is my second time doing it. So it's been a lot less nerve wracking than the first time. Because the staff is honestly lovely and they make it so chill. It's obviously wonderful to be on a big stage and be able to share something on a bigger stage. And I'm hoping to have some influence, perhaps some representation. It's going to be an all girl band, which I love. So I feel like more than ever, it's just we need good representation.

ZACK: We need more girl bands.

RACHEL: We definitely need more girl bands. Always more girl bands.

ZACK: Yes. So the first time, did you get stage fright? How do you manage performing in front of so many people? Because it's something I've talked about on this podcast. I'm still trying to work up the nerve to perform my music in front of people, which is my big goal for this year. So I like to get any tips I can from people who've done it.

RACHEL: This is going to sound strange, but honestly, I think I get more stage fright from smaller crowds, intimate crowds as opposed to big crowds, because I think with the first time I thought I was going to be more nervous, but I never really was. And I think part of it is that when it's a big crowd, you just can't really focus in on a single person.

You can't meet somebody's eyeballs. And sometimes in big crowds, a few people might be talking to each other, doing whatever. So there's a less pressure from it. And something about looking into the sea of people just kind of gets a little blurry almost. You kind of forget that many people, whereas in smaller, even singer songwriter, writers in the round vibe, those kind of things actually make me a little more nervous because it's people are very intently looking at you, hanging in every word. It's just more direct. So it's very vulnerable and it's a wonderful thing to do. And I love doing it. But I actually get more nervous about those shows than bigger ones.

ZACK: I could totally see that because smaller shows are quiet and it's like, yes, it's like a pin drop. That sounds terrifying. But you gotta do it.

RACHEL: It's a great experience. But yeah, really my advice would be to you would be just start with FedExForum and go from there.

ZACK: I'm going to call the Grizzlies up and be like, give me on the next halftime show.

RACHEL: Honestly.

ZACK: So you released your album in 2023.

RACHEL: Yes.

ZACK: Are you working on anything, a new album right now?

RACHEL: I am. So I released one of the singles from it, kind of mid-summer last year, I think, The Tides, which was kind of a little mini EP because I did an acoustic version, and a band version.

I have some songs in the vault from early last year, through my travels. I started a song while I was in Columbia. I started a song while I was in Ireland. But since then, or even since last year, I just really haven't had time to just sit down and then flesh them out and then get it to the recording process. So it's in the works. And that process has been like many of the processes I've had before where it's it just kind of happen. I just have to make time to have time to record it.

ZACK: Yeah, it does take time. How do you think your sound or writing has evolved since Black Fae?

RACHEL: I think I've gotten better at guitar for one. Which helps. And I've also picked up some other instruments that I really want to add on to the album. Honestly, and this is maybe the first time I've said this out loud, I plan on doing all the instrumentation myself.

ZACK: Amazing.

RACHEL: Yeah.

ZACK: What are the instruments?

RACHEL: So it'll be piano. Banjo, guitar, ukulele and cajon. And maybe some harmonica and maybe some other things. I have ADHD, believe or not. And I see lots of—I'm a master of none kind of jack of all trades kind of vibe where I'm like, I like that instrument and I like that instrument, and I like it. So I have all these things at my house. I have a bass at my house, I have drums at my house, I have the cajon at the house. And I'm like, not only would it challenge me to get better at these instruments and I'm decently fine at all of them. But also I can, it's crazy. And the next album I want is going to be a lot more acoustic based. It's going to be a lot more folky. And I'm like, all these instruments that I wanted—I can play, maybe not super skillfully, but I can play all of them.

ZACK: So I love that. And I get it about the ADHD. Why did I buy a digital saxophone? I played it for ten days and then I just put it in my closet and forgot about it. I'm like, oh, I'm going to do the piano now.

RACHEL: Because you might want to play it someday.

ZACK: Exactly. I'm going to. I learned a scale and I was like, I'm a digital saxophonist. So you tackle depression spirals in Black Fae. Are there any themes that you're tackling with your new album?

RACHEL: I don't know yet. It'll kind of come. So far the themes that I've picked up in my songs have been more hope in connection, a little bit of challenge to the status quo. There is some more activism than there has been in previous songs. I don't know what the overall theme will be, but it's looking to be definitely an album of hope and resilience.

ZACK: It's you know, after the depression, you have the energy to fight back. And fight for your hope and healing.

RACHEL: Right. Well, absolutely. And I find it's, at least for myself, I find it's easier to fight for others, maybe even more than myself sometimes, which is—

ZACK: Like a therapist.

RACHEL: That's right. Exactly. This is something I talk to my therapist about, where she's like, you're so ready to go in the ring for other people, but maybe bring some of that back. I'm like Yeah I'll think about it.

ZACK: So my favorite question to ask artist, if you had all the time, all the resources, what would be your dream project?

RACHEL: Wow. The first thing that comes to mind is it would be really cool to perform with a symphony, in an old cathedral. Something like that. Create a live album. Recording within this cathedral with a choir. And I would definitely want to go just all out with it. Or in a cave.

Where to find Rachel

Instagram: @rachelmaxann