Q&A: How to Lean into The Ugly with Anderson Goin

Visual artist and Founder/Owner of The Ugly Art Co., Anderson Goin

Visual artist and Founder/Owner of The Ugly Art Co. Anderson Goin is like really creative. Read the Q&A from our interview available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

ZACK ORSBORN:

So I'm joined by Anderson Goin. Anderson is an amazing visual artist, painter, and he's the owner of Ugly Art Co. Gallery. So Anderson, I met you, I think it was 2021, and I had just started out putting my visual art out there. And I applied to your call for submissions. And it just happened. You wanted to have me on and it, like, really touched me.

And I know I say this a lot, but it meant the world that you took a chance on me. You've opened so many doors for me with my artistic practice and artistic career. And so I obviously had to have you on.

ANDERSON GOIN:

I appreciate it. I'm excited to be on. You know, when I first started Ugly, I didn't really know what I wanted it to be. I had been out of the art world for a minute. And I think what I really ultimately wanted was community. And so, yeah, we put out that call and got a lot of submissions. Grateful for that. Some of the work was, like, really good, but I didn't feel like any real connection to it. Your work was the first work that, like, really stood out to me.

And I feel very passionately about the artists that we have, not only, like, is the work really good, but they're really good people. Which is important to me. I've had some people apply whose work is really great, but they're not great, which is tough: I appreciate you submitting the work, but we're going a different way.

And, I think that's important. I think it's important to surround yourself with people who want to grow. Either artistically or individually. And I think that we've kind of cultivated a group that, you know, really exemplifies that.

ZO:

There's some powerhouses. We'll talk more about Ugly. But you said something—that you had been out of the art world for a while.

What kind of made you withdraw from that?

AG:

I think being told you can't do this so often, especially, in college. And I just kind of got, you know, disengaged with the personality of it. It seemed to me that the contemporaries that I was working with, that the work took a backseat to who they were as a person or as an artist, which is fine, you know, but it became like, super performative to me.

And I think that, like, really turned me off and it felt like inauthentic. And I just did not like that. We will probably get into this, but I feed off of people. So when someone is like, really performing or working really hard, that inspires me.

It was just kind of the opposite of that. And I probably could have done more to go and really seek out people who inspire me. But I was young. So I said, you know, I'll go earn an honest living and went into a couple different careers.

Was an operations manager for a moving company, went into mailing software.

ZO:

I cannot see you doing that—well, I can because you have good energy, but, like, that must have been—

AG:

Oh, it was awful. It was just so draining. I mean, and talk about, like, inauthentic. That was like, God, this is just soul sucking, you know, because it's all just a lie, you know?

And you're looking at like the back end of some of these transactions and your profit margin is 75%. Like it just felt so slimy. And I, you know, not speaking on all sale practices. I'm sure there's some legitimate and truthful practices out there. But what I was specifically in just did not feel like that.

That same process that led me out of the art world actually brought me back into it. And I was more intentional about seeking out community that I respect, that I think has immense talent. And then, the other touch of that is really being from Memphis or having some sort of call to Memphis.

Because I feel like I've seen a lot of really wonderfully talented people get washed out or never be given an opportunity. Constantly being told no. So I was like, let's just say yes, you know, and create our own opportunities. And it's been really great.

ZO:

So the genesis started about 2020. You know, we're five years later and last year—Ugly, the gallery opened. I know that was a long process. It was stressful process. Talk about what went into that and kind of some struggles that you overcome.

AG:

Well, the number one struggle was just like, is this ever actually going to happen? You know?

And then I felt like I was lying to the group. I wasn’t—I was regurgitating what I was being told. I was like, these people probably think that I'm just stringing them along.

ZO:

I had faith. I truly was like, Anderson going to get this shit done.

AG:

And I'm not a patient person, so that was my biggest struggle, like stepping into this completely new atmosphere of the art world, which is like opening a gallery.

Organizing all of that. But, you know, I looked for a long time for for space, either as, like, a shared studio or a smaller gallery space, and everything was just, I mean, ungodly expensive, you know? And I there was just like no—I went into this, you know, come hell or high water. I'm going to give it my all.

And if it fails, it fails. But at least I was in the arena and tried, you know. And then John Halford and Patrick Brown from cnct. design reached out to me and Genevieve [Farr] or I think Genevieve was actually the first connect, and she connected me and Patrick and John, and they took me down to 635 Madison, which is now the Ugly Art Company.

And, you know, I walked in and I was like, Holy shit. Like, there is no way I'm going to be able to do this. I was looking at little, like 600 square foot like apartments, essentially with shag carpet that were out of my price range. I mean, that was kind of cool, but not really conducive for showing work.

But they were like—something that you don't really hear from a developer as an artist is like we want to help you, and we want to create an opportunity for you. And that was, like, super rewarding. Because I felt like I was trying to do that on so many levels. It was nice to have someone give me a little bit of a leg up.

They have been absolutely wonderful. This is just how things are with construction and any kind of projects that are on a larger scale. Like there are hold ups that are completely out of their control. And then when you're dealing with City of Memphis, things happen.

So, took a little bit longer than I would have ultimately wanted. I wanted to get in there immediately, but, I'm glad. You know, looking back now that we didn't because I wasn't ready. I didn't think about programing. I wasn't thinking about compiling emails and marketing. And, so that forced pause gave me time to kind of collect myself, and really be more diligent about, you know, once we do get in there, how can we be effective and really activate the space not only for the district but make it beneficial for the artists, for the people that are coming in and experiencing the space.

ZO:

I love that. And the gallery has opened, you had your first exhibition there? I fell in love with that exhibition, and it made me feel at home. It was so nostalgic and personal, and it really made me get to know you better. So with all the gallery opening stuff and you doing your own show, what was the process like to balance those two?

AG:

Yeah, I mean, I really had to kind of turn off, like, the business side of my brain. I'm not running like some hedge fund where, like, I'm in meetings from like 7 a.m. to like 10:30 at night. But, I mean, there are things that I just had to intentionally make space for, which is like creating my work, because I think that's more of a headspace.

And it is like any kind of like meaningful carving out time in my schedule, being in a right space to create because when I first started getting back into creating that show, the initial pieces just like were not great, and it felt forced. And it showed. The work looked forced.

You know, my work already has kind of, bare bones, and it's like, very broken down. And so it just looked elemental to me, and not in a great way, you know? So I kind of recollected my thoughts and it was a little bit more diligent about creating that space for myself.

You know, I think for a long time I was trying to create work for other people. And especially with social media and Instagram, it's easy to get sucked into this spot of like, well, I want people to like my stuff. And, I think when you do that, you're really devaluing what you have to offer as an artist.

So I got really honest to myself. I was like, listen, you can do this. But you have to be true to what you know and how you speak. And, so that really kind of helped me get into a groove. And it was really fun.

ZO:

So what made you want to explore that? Your childhood and growing up in your home and family?

AG:

Yeah, I think as I've gotten older, I just have really started to be able to cherish those little moments that as an entitled little shithead kid, I just completely glossed over and took for granted.

And, you know, as my worldview is widened, seeing a lot of people not ever having some of those opportunities. And like, I felt ungrateful, you know, and so I wanted to be intentional about being grateful and about the things that I love. Like, you know, little 30 minute car rides with my sister, where she's forcing me to listen to this music that I hated at the time. Or like the chair that my dad sat in every night when we watched TV.

ZO:

That was my favorite part. With the TV with the little figurines on top.

AG:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I appreciate it.

And it's just like these very mundane things that I think everyone has experienced that. Like these little things that are kind of like statues in your life that maybe have some moss that have been covered over and it's easy to look past or look beyond them.

But like, that's really what I find beauty in is like these small things that like, in one way or another, have kind of like gotten you to the next stage. And like my dad sitting there and watching TV with me every night was like a cornerstone of my childhood, you know. And so yeah, kind of taking some of those, moments and then bringing them back with this real fervor and love and energy.

That's kind of what my thought process was. I was working on all these at one time, you know, like I had them all laid out. And so it was easy to or easier for me to keep that energy from piece to piece by working on many pieces at once.

ZO:

I love that. And your dad, because when I've described you to other people, I describe you boisterous and energetic. Like, what does that come from? And then I met your dad.

AG:

Oh, yeah. That is exactly right.

ZO:

And he's worked with artists in his career.

AG:

Yeah, he sure has.

ZO:

What has your dad taught you about artistry and creativity? What have you gleaned from him?

AG:

Yeah, I think the thing that I have gained from him is to be fearless and to really take chances. And I think that's something that his father didn't grant to him. So, he wanted to make a point of it, to me, he never said no. He wasn't like, maybe you should do something else.

And he allowed me to be happy in this space that a lot of parents look down on—you know, just truthfully—or chastise or passive aggressive about it. You know, he's always believed in me, but like he really has.

And to have that belief is, it's a lot, and it gives you courage to take leaps and ultimately fail, you know, and I failed a lot. But, I think if I didn't have that kind of encouragement, I would have never jumped, you know? So yeah, he and my mother both.

He was a great artist when he was younger. And had an opportunity to go to Chicago Art Institute. And his grandfather was like, absolutely not. You're going to study business at Memphis. And then, he went into the music industry and then we started a small little record label called BAA Records here in Memphis.

That was really fun, and it was fun for me to see him excited, you know.

ZO:

He’s probably one of the most excited people I’ve ever met. When I talk to him, I just light up. And same with you because you're so passionate about this, like what you're talking about. Anytime you talk about art, you just kind of come alive.

AG:

I have my family, my wife, my friends. But, like, art is my foundation, you know. It is what I fall back on in good and bad times. And then the people that—you know, I view myself as a visual artist.

But I think more than that, I think my biggest strength is putting other people in a position to succeed. And I think that I really get a lot of joy from that. And I think that's kind of what Jerry does, too. You know, he has an eye for talent. And he takes chances. And I think that's like, really what it's about.

And so, yeah, we had the record label and then we closed that down. And then when I started Ugly, it was cool to see him like coming to work because he's getting to like live vicariously. So it's been fun for all of us.

ZO:

It's a family affair.

AG:

Oh, 100%.

ZO:

What has your mom's involvement been? How has she helped you create Ugly?

AG:

My mom is the person that is like the rock. Like Jerry's the guy that pushes me off the rock. My mom is the one that, like, lets me climb back up. She's the sweetest woman. Yeah, I mean, she is an angel.

She's gentle. And especially when times like where—because I'm an emotional guy for better and for worse. Like, I can be a lot to deal with. And she can navigate that and bring me back to where I need to be sometimes. She will give me a kick in the ass.

But she'll also be like, you know, it's going to be okay. And both of those are needed. And I think her and my wife are the two people that can work through my bullshit and get me where I need to be.

ZO:

Yeah, Steph is an angel, too.

AG:

100%. 100%. I mean, both her and my mother, they are angels, but they are complete badasses, and, like, they are going to tell you the truth.

Like, no matter what. They might deliver the truth kindly, but they're going to give it to you. For me especially, like I don't do well with like “good job” even though I know it's not. I need you to tell me if it's not good. Like what can I do better? They're not afraid to tell me areas where I can do better, but also like in a gentle and loving way.

ZO:

I love that because it kind of goes into the story about the name behind Ugly.

Talk about that. Why did you decide to name it this kind of in-your-face name that's not [normally] tied to art.

AG:

Well, there's like a couple of components to it, but the funny story of it is, I was having my first show. I think it was out of high school.

I think I just finished. Yeah. Because I was going to Watkins and I had, like, this one really big piece I was super proud of. And so my friend and her mom were there at the show, and I was standing behind them, and they had no idea that I was behind her. But, I could hear what they were saying.

And her mom goes, “His work is just so ugly.” It was like, oh, God, Jesus Christ.

ZO:

That’s cutting.

AG:

Oh yeah, 100%. And like thought I was good, but like, didn't know anything, you know.

So like I was like, oh wow. An adult is saying that all my shit is ugly.

Like this is not great. But even in that moment, I knew that I'm going to take that and I'm going to make that something positive. I'm not going to let this one person's opinion completely destroy my worldview of my work and myself. So I did like even throughout college, I would refer to my work as ugly, in an endearing, like, brutally kind of honest way.

It is ugly in a lot of ways.

ZO:

To me, I equate ugliness with specialness. It’s not pristine or polished. It has like a human error, erratic touch to it. Like your work has scribbles and colors that don't match and images that wouldn't normally go together. But it does come through.

AG:

Right, right. I try to be, like, super raw in a delicate way.

I also hope that my work comes off as, like, authentic. Like most of my mark making is super immediate. There's not much revision once it's down. And I kind of just, whatever's happening, I react to the marks that are being made on the canvas. And then the other part of that is—you know, years later, I end up talking to the mom, and it was all fun and funny, but the other part of that is like, just taking something that most people attach like this really negative connotation to and owning that and making it your own. Like this is something that we can be proud of.

And then also like the Memphis side of it. Like Memphis gets a bad rap a lot of times. People shit on Memphis all the time.

ZO:

It pisses me off.

AG:

Pisses me off too. And, so like, yeah, we are a little bit ugly. We are a little bit in your face. Like, you're gonna have to fucking deal with that, you know? Like we are here and we're not going anywhere. And then the last little part is like, you're going to remember Ugly. Like “Anderson's Art Gallery”?

You might not like us, but you're certainly going to remember us. And I would rather be hated than someone feel indifferent about me.

ZO:

I love that. So with Ugly—this is a two part question. Where do you see the evolution of your art, your personal art, and evolution of Ugly?

And do they kind of coincide?

AG:

Yeah, I think so. It's funny because I think like going back to what I was saying earlier, I draw inspiration from people. And so allowing myself to be around like all these really great artists in Ugly, of all different mediums, of all different styles, of all different narratives, has like, I think subconsciously, kind of influenced my work a little bit and like, not necessarily the content of the work, but how I'm approaching it. It's talking to people like you and then going to talk to Isaiah [Kennedy] or Emily [Burkhead] about how they do things, why they do things, has made me be, while immediate, more intentional.

And so I think my art is—and you know a lot of my art changes stylistically pretty.

ZO:

Me too. I get bored easy.

AG:

Me too. I don't want to stick to one thing. I do want it to change. But I think as we grow as a group, both, like, literally and more internally, I think my work has kind of done that in a similar way, but this year my focus is probably going to be like a tiny step back from my personal work and like really putting that energy into the group, like really cultivating an atmosphere where we know each other, trust each other, can critique each other on a semi frequently basis. Because that first year was mainly getting the gallery up, operating.

It was more external. And now I think I want this—since we're in a good spot—I want it to kind of turn in a little bit and be a little bit more internal with the group. You know, obviously we're still going to have plenty of shows and different things.

ZO:

Yeah, y'all have a lot of events. Yall have music shows like every weekend.

ZO:

Yeah. Pretty much. We've got something going on—and then I think that is super intentional. We don't want to be like this monolithic space that you come in and it's the same experience, right? The same spot or environment that you were in a week and a half ago.

I think it's important to keep it fresh and interesting. So, yeah, obviously we're going to have a lot of art programs, but we're kind of branching out, especially with some of the restaurants that are coming in. We're going to do a lot of food oriented stuff. We'll have concerts still. We're going to open up some more poetry, like, open mic nights, which we have not done yet.

So I'm really excited about that. And then we were also kind of getting into the film screening stuff a little bit too. So for film releases on the smaller scale. I really love cultivating intimate, special experiences that are art centric, that create discussion, and that you can have fun at and not feel stupid or unwanted.

And where you can have fun, you know, like, not everything has to be super serious.

ZO:

Yeah, there's a fun energy when you go and there's always music playing. It's not like you feel like you're going to say the wrong thing or someone's going to like give you a shitty look. It’s very welcoming.

And as someone who is, like, getting their footing into the art world, and I've always wanted to be a part of the art world, it's so nice to have that. People that welcome you.

AG:

And I think that's like a very, like common misnomer with the art world. It's like, oh, the art world is like super inclusive and friendly.

It's like, well, not really. It's actually pretty gatekeep-y and pretty like, yeah, get off my lawn-ish energy. Which I ran into a lot when I was first starting the gallery, but, yeah. Like, we want to be—a lot of my friends are not, you know, art centric people. And so I talked to a bunch of them before I started Ugly, and I was like, what's your experience in galleries or in museums?

And like the most common thing was, I feel unwanted and I feel stupid. And that really irritated me. Just from a business practice, like, what a terrible way to operate. So your goal is to have people not come back, you know? So yeah, I mean, that was super important for me.

And that also kind of plays into the people of Ugly—why it's important. I don't want to platform someone who is a shitty person, or thinks that they're so much better than others. You know, I just I don't have time for that. So yeah, creating a space that truly is educational, that is truly welcoming and that you can have your Masters and your BFA or whatever it is, you can know the Baroque period and the Byzantine period, or know absolutely nothing at all and still feel like you're wanted and this place is just as much of a place for you as Sally with the thesis on Baroque art versus Byzantine, you know.

ZO:

So one of my favorite questions to ask artist is if you had all the resources in the world, what would be your dream project?

AG:

Oh, gosh. That's a good question.

I would like to do massive scale work, like, incredibly, like 30 by 40 feet. And I would also like to kind of get into the public art sphere a little bit.

ZO:

I would love to see some Anderson murals.

AG:

I would love that, too. Yeah. The process of mural making, like, really scares me. But, yeah, I think it'd probably be something like public art, really large scale, like, takes months and months to produce.

I've always been intrigued by work that really takes a long time because my work is, like, pretty fast. And I've seen work that's taken three hours and work that's taken six months. And a lot of times I take that piece that's done in three hours over the six month one.

But yes, probably some sort of public art, large scale or something like that.

ZO:

I can't wait to see the Anderson mural. I want to thank you again.

AG:

Thank you for having me.

ZO:

You are such a figurehead for me and so many other artists. I appreciate that. You’re doing really cool stuff. Ugly has changed my life.

AG:

Appreciate it. I'm glad to hear that. It really does mean a lot to hear that. So that's neat.

Where to find Anderson

Instagram: @andersongoin