Q&A: How to Make Everything Imperfect with Sam Reeves Hill
Visual artist, painter and muralist Sam Reeves Hill
Sam Reeves Hill—visual artist, painter, and muralist—is like really creative. Read the Q&A from our interview available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.
ZACK ORSBORN:
So I'm joined by Sam Reeves Hill. Sam is an amazing painter, visual artist, photographer and a muralist. Sam, we met at the opening of Ugly Art Co. gallery last year, I think. And I was really nervous, and we kind of gravitated towards each other, and we instantly started talking about deep shit and astrology, and I just felt very comfortable and safe talking to you and your art is very inspiring to me.
And so I had to have you on the show. So thanks for joining me.
SAM REEVES HILL:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
ZO:
So you're one of the most prolific artists I know. You always have something going on. What is your creative practice like? What's that process like?
SRH:
For me, I guess I kind of describe it like a daily journal entry. I try to do something. I try to put something on paper, on canvas, even if it's not good. Like, you know, you can always go back and cover it up or start again. But taking the first step of actually getting a little messy and doing something with my piles and piles of art, you know, and I say that like it's always done well because—but it's not.
And I knew that when you for having me on this, that this is what we were talking about, I'm like, I always feel weird talking about my process because it is not a pretty thing, you know, like, it is sometimes a little messy, a little unorganized, and I really try to be consistent, but I'm not always consistent, you know?
And a lot of times it's kind of a brain dump of just my lack of, I don't know, preparation.
ZO:
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I like how you described it as a daily journal entry. What do you do when there are days where you just like, are in a funk and you don't want to do anything? How do you overcome that or do you overcome that?
SRH:
I feel like I've gotten so much better at not procrastinating, but I've always kind of struggled with being a procrastinator. My mom always would joke about my sister and I. My sister—if there was a test in two weeks, she would start studying day one, and she would say that I would wait till the last day and hope it was canceled or pushed back.
So I have a tendency to, like, need that external pressure, and I've really worked hard on doing better. I've not by any means overcome it, but I definitely have moved in a better direction in that way, I guess. I also have moved some stuff from my studio into my home. And I think that helps too, because sometimes, you know, like you don't—you get off work, you're doing all the stuff, and you don't always want to go to another location.
So it's kind of helps me to bring some of it back into my space.
ZO:
Yeah, like live with the art. And you were talking about your mom and when I went to your [solo exhibition at Ugly Art Co.] show, you had a wall of sayings your mom said. How does your mom and your family in general inspire your art?
SRH:
I feel like I was surrounded by very creative women growing up who didn't necessarily look at what they were doing as creative. My mom has always been a reader and a doodler. I have my maternal grandmother, my paternal grandmother, and a paternal step grandmother, and they were all very present. But both of my dad's mothers were painters.
They both did landscape painting and some embroidery. And then my grandmother on my mom's side was always—she sewed, she gardened, but then they were all like documenters. And I feel like—everybody had piles and piles of photos, and that kind of brings—just like, I don't know, just—we don't have that anymore, you know?
Like, now it's kind of like—it's on our phone, but you don't have the physical. And I think that that brings a lot of inspiration as well.
But I was homeschooled until I was 15, so I was very much like in that window of like, my mother was very present in my life, and she is the same but different from me.
Like we have a lot in common, but then we also have some polar opposite as well. But yes, the mom-isms—I'm always adding to them. And my siblings remember something I’m adding to the list. I'm like, we're putting that on paper because it's funny and entertaining and nostalgic.
ZO:
And it's like, some of the stuff that was on there was like very motivating. It's like stuff you need to hear. So whenever you're making art, do you ever hear mom's voice? What does that sound like?
SRH:
I feel like it is more so—because she was a tough love parent. I definitely learned later in life to have a little more of like a positive self encouragement voice and not be so hard on myself.
But I think ultimately there was like—I think that she's always shown belief and that you can accomplish whatever you put your mind to. Although she probably didn't envision me painting or managing restaurants. I think that she's very proud of me pursuing something even if it's a little bit off the beaten path.
And, I don't know—I'm blessed to have a very loving, close relationship with my parents. And so it's kind of like just having a sense of security, I guess. Maybe it's more so like an energetic thing than it is like a voice.
ZO:
I love that. And one of my favorite paintings from your show was a painting inspired by your dad.
That was very touching to me. And one of the things I loved about that painting was how texture—there were so many layers to that. And there's a lot of layers in your work.
Tell me more about those layers and how you get to the final image of the painting?
SRH:
I feel like kind of going back to like the daily journal entry thing, like when I'm working on something, sometimes I overwork it, sometimes I'm like—I've had one situation and I know I'm going off from that painting, but I have one painting where I kind of did it in 45 minutes.
And I'll never forget this. It was like 2018, like right when I was really starting to be like, okay, I've kind of found my style and I'm pursuing that. And I finish it. And then I was like, I did that too quick. Like, you know, I need to do more. And then I messed it up and I was like—I have a picture of it from when I was like, it's done.
And then I overworked it. And then I was like, I can never bring it back, you know? But I definitely feel like I've gotten to a point where I'm a little better at knowing when to stop. But then also the things can also never be done. I don't know, but I feel like with the paintings, with texture, with layers, I feel like it's kind of like a nod to life, you know?
I think it brings more—humanity is not a good word, but it kind of brings in a deeper, more, I'm struggling finding the word.
ZO:
I know what you mean. There's like a depth and almost like a human touch to it that you can't really replicate. There's no, like, shininess.
SRH:
Yes, I agree,
I feel like I really leaned into kind of like that abstract expressionism, you know, like that aesthetic more because I went through a—I feel like everybody when you're young and you try to start drawing things true to life, and then you're like, this doesn't look right.
It doesn't matter. It's cool. I think now I love imperfect things. I love good bad art, you know? Like I like it, but then, you know, I was more discouraged. But now there's something about it that just has a—I don't know, like a curiosity, you know?
ZO:
And it’s something that's never been seen before.
Which when you're doing realism, it's like the technicality of it is fucking amazing. But like, the thing about abstract expressionism—and I would consider myself an abstract artist, too—it's like when I go about it, I want to create something that's never been seen before.
Tell me about the painting of your dad? What inspired you to do that?
SRH:
So my dad is a bluegrass musician, I would say is the best way to describe it. He plays by ear. He's played since he was young. He can do the piano, the banjo—pretty much any stringed instrument, like a guitar.
But he always had his same guitar case since he was in college. Had all the stickers on it, you know, and it was just like an anchor, you know—like a memory anchor is something that I kind of went back to for this. I'm, like, jumping—
But it was one of those things, when I think of my dad, I think about that guitar case. And I really enjoy when I'm painting something that has a true intention and maybe not so much of like a feeling or an energy—to put meaningful things into it.
That's why I like—I'll get into that. I'm trying to say focus because I'm so ADHD, so I'm like, oh, let's go down this road.
But my whole life, he always wore overalls. He was a staking engineer for the power company in the small town that I grew up in.
He always had like a bandana in his pocket to wipe his glasses. So it was just kind of little things that really made me reflect and then think of him. And it was special, too, because, like, back to families—we had like those 90s landscape paintings, like prints in the house.
So, it was nothing abstract. It was all very like, you knew what it was—technical, you know? And so there's always been—since I kind of leaned more into the abstract style, a lack of understanding, maybe? Or just not fully like—I don't want to say appreciation, because I think that they knew that what I was doing was, they liked it?
But you know, it wasn't what they would put in their home. And it was something about being able to show them a different perspective. I feel like showing, doing my style, but with things that were important and meaningful to my family, you know, it kind of like opened their eyes a little bit to like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
You know, like it kind of brought some, I guess, more perspective on what I was doing.
ZO:
Yeah. It being like, autobiographical. I remember when I was going to ask you about: like, the technicality of drawing and when you first start out. So I started out as an art major and I made it through Drawing I to Drawing II.
And my art teacher held up this like beautiful drawing, colorful drawing. And she was like, this is a C-minus. Basically trying to scare people. And it worked on me. I got scared because I'm not a drawer. I love abstract stuff. I like weird textures and gritty textures. So with abstract art and like not having this technical ability, were there any instances in your art where you're like, I kind of want to give up?
Are there any struggles that get in your way of creating?
SRH:
I can't imagine nobody ever wondering if they should just give up. But, I think like—my background was in graphic design. And so I think I really kind of did a jump a little bit. I guess the best way that I could really describe it is, I was playing college basketball.
Basketball was like my main dream. I think from a young age I was like, I want to continue playing.
ZO:
That's one of my favorite things about you—that you play basketball.
SRH:
Yeah. Thank you. But it was kind of like, I didn't think about what I would do after college. That was what I wanted to do.
I really wanted to continue playing. Life just—it didn't work out. And that's okay. But I think when that happened, it was almost like an ego death, I don't know. But you know, for so long I had some intrinsic value or strength that just being like, I'm a successful, good basketball player.
And then that was like, it's no longer there. And then you're like, okay, well, what do I do now? And I was really kind of coming out of, just like, low energy mental health state. And I was just like, you know what—what if money didn't matter, what would I want to do? Like, ultimately, what would I want to do?
And, you know, basketball is no longer thing. And I just was like, I want to paint. And I never really admitted it to myself or just out loud. And some of the stuff that I did right off the bat, it's so funny because like, you see kind of little things that I do now, but I have—my sister has a painting, one of the first ones that I did when I was like actually putting paint on canvas in a way that wasn’t a class where I had a lesson and there was something you had to do for an assignment. And then one of my cousins also commissioned me to do a painting when I said that that's what I wanted to do. And, it's just funny to kind of see the growth from there to now—I feel like I'm on a tangent again.
ZO:
No! You’re doing great. It makes me think—how do you think you've changed as a person since you admitted to yourself that you're an artist and you've taken it on full force? What have you seen change in you?
SRH:
I feel like I've always kind of had an appreciation for, like, little things. And I think, honestly, it feels like kind of going back to a childhood version of myself. You know, again, being homeschooled, I was outside a lot.
I was able to be creative and kind of—my mom was like a no TV, no video games, nothing battery operated. Not that strict, but she wanted us to be self entertained and like go outside and so I feel like it's kind of brought me back to that a little bit.
ZO:
So when you were a kid, were you a creative kid? What were you drawn to as a kid?
SRH:
Yeah, a lot of coloring pencils and markers that like—I laugh about that too—because I really never painted until college. Because they hated messes. It was like, there was no glitter. It was like, coloring pencils were cool. Crayons were cool, markers were cool. We didn't really have paint the house.
But it was very much like, we had sketchbooks. And my mom is a collector of books. Like, I still get that from her a little bit.
But in our playroom growing up, my dad built bookshelves so it looked like a library, you know? And we would thrift a lot. And, she would always pick up drawing books. She still to this day picks up drawing books for me. And art books.
ZO:
That’s sweet.
SRH:
It's really sweet. So she is always on the lookout for, like, anything art related and, you know, typography, graphic design, anything.
She's like, does this look good, and I'm like, it does. And she's like, I got it.
ZO:
You’re like teaching your mom your perspective. Another thing you do that's really cool is you do murals. What got you into that and how did that start?
SRH:
I think it was just something that I was like—because I love painting big, you know, and it's not always easy to paint big because it's not necessarily something that can fit everywhere, you know? Even now, the painting for my dad, I was like, I want to give it to him.
But he was like, I don't know where we would put it, you know? It's a big painting. But for the murals, it was kind of like, okay, I get to paint as big as I want. Like, that's fun. My first one was for the Balinese Ballroom downtown, and I had no idea what I was doing.
ZO:
I would be scared shitless.
SRH:
I was like, I'm going for it, you know? And then I also made the mistake of doing it when it was cold outside. And I will never do that again. I learned my lesson, but I was, like, so excited to have the opportunity. I didn't want to be like, we're waiting till spring.
So I did it in December and I was so cold. It probably took me too long because I didn't know at the time. And I am not really a planner. I would say I'm now become more of a planner, but I usually just start putting paint on canvas until something shows. And that was how I went about the first mural.
Now it's like, I sketch it out on my iPad, you know, take a picture of the wall, see how everything is going to fit, instead of just being like, I'm putting this out of my brain, pulling it out of my brain and putting it out there.
ZO:
Mockups!
SRH:
Yes. But I feel like it's just a fun way to get outside of—well, get outside too—but also just do something large.
ZO:
I love that. I want to work up to murals. You know, like, the largest I've painted is, like 72 by 48. I want to get bigger. But switching gears completely, so when we first met we talked about astrology. I want to know how, if astrology inspires your work or inspires you as a person. How does astrology fit into your life?
I love hearing people talk about astrology.
SRH:
I really like didn't get into astrology as much until like 2016. My family is very religious and they were like, we don't do this. And so we just never. But then I kind of started getting into it and learning more about how you have all the planets and there's different signs in each planet.
And that's why this Aries might not be like this Aries and like stuff like that.
Like I could see how astrology could inspire me, but it's almost like a it’s better way of how I understand myself now. I feel like it's one of those things where it's like—and it sounds kind of silly, but when I'm emotional, I can get very intense.
And I don't mean to, but like I feel it. Like it's happening. And I have an Aries moon. And it's like, after learning about it, it was kind of like, oh, like, that's just kind of like a little blip of understanding and self-forgiveness because sometimes you're like, why am I so pissed off right now?
I think it's interesting. I think it's cool that it's like a snapshot of the sky on the day that you were born and I think so many people look at it like it's a horoscope or like, the 90s or 2000s magazines that would have all the horoscopes but like, it's not the same, you know, and it's more so just an ancient practice.
ZO:
So many years and study has gone into it.
And it offers you a chance to stop and pause and do self-reflection because you can read descriptions of what each sign does and be like, that's not really me or that is me. So you're really kind of like narrowing down what your personality is. And when you talk about it with other people you really get to learn about someone on a deeper level.
You're not just talking about the weather, you're talking about like, oh what do I do when I'm angry. So I love that.
SRH:
I think it's cool too because I feel like it's Aries, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Gemini—they all have like a really bad rap astrologically.
ZO:
I’m two of those.
SRH:
But no but I think it's so funny because it's like ultimately like there's underdeveloped and mature versions of every sign, you know?
And I feel like a lot of times people are like, they just all assume that it's all the bad and like, but there's beautiful things about those as well.
ZO:
I love it. And speaking along the lines of that—like knowing yourself, are there any habits that you do personally that give you the energy to do these daily journaling or daily artistic reflections?
SRH:
I have always been like a journaler or like had a diary. I think it's funny because I always had one, but I either threw them away or like, hid them so well that I couldn't find them as an adult—I mean, as a kid.
But I was terrified that somebody is going to read them because it's like such a release to just put down stuff that it's like, I can't, I don't want to say this out loud to like my mom. I just need to get this out, you know?
And even now, it's like things that are silly that might make me upset. And it's something about just writing it down—it's like it frees up more space in your brain, you know?
There was a book, it's called The Artist Way.
ZO:
Don’t even get me started on The Artist’s Way. She should pay me at this point, as much as I talk about it to people.
SRH:
It's such a good book, and I'm not perfect. I don't do my morning pages every day, but I do make an effort. And I really think it's interesting to see the way you feel when you do it versus when you don't do it, you know?
ZO:
Yeah. It makes a huge difference.
Do you still play basketball?
SRH:
I still play basketball. I play in a summer league, so I haven't really this spring. I used to work out really consistently. I'm trying to re-establish a practice in that way.
You know, for so long, I was active. I guess, it wasn't like a vanity thing. It was like I wanted to be the best athlete I could be. And now, I'm not playing basketball. What I'm working on currently is like, re-wiring the way that I think about it too.
Like, I'm getting better for my health. It inspired me to wake up early and go to the gym and do things because it was like, there's a vision of, you wanted a successful season, you know, like you wanted to be healthy.
But I think it is not as easy for me to self motivate without that being the final goal. Obviously I feel better after I do it.
ZO:
Always. It's like, oh, science is actually right. It does help with your mental health, which gives you creative energy.
So back to The Artist’s Way. We'll talk about briefly, because I can do a whole podcast about it.
What was that process like for you? Why did you want to do The Artist’s Way?
SRH:
I feel like it just makes sense. I think when I read it, I was like, this makes sense. But I've also read books like, Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich and things like that. And it to me, it feels like, if you write it down—I feel like writing something down already is like a subconscious message to your brain, you know? And I think that with The Artist's Way, what is unique versus other journaling practices is that it's just like you just write whatever comes to mind.
And even if nothing comes to mind like, nothing is coming to my mind, you know. But it's like, until that's done, just do it.
And I think that kind of relieves some pressure of, again, like perfectionism or being like, this needs to be a certain way because I love to make things that still need to be a certain way. And for that, it's like it just kind of removes the excuses really, because you just keep going until you fill out three pages.
ZO:
Yeah, and it trains you to sit down and to just do something. And that's what I really love about it. And like you said you're not perfect with it. I'm not perfect with it either. I only do like one and a half pages instead of 3 pages because I'm like, this will take me 30 minutes.
SRH:
I got a smaller notebook. Because at first I had a very large notebook.
ZO:
So this is my favorite question to ask artists, but what would be your dream project if you had all the resources in the world? What would you want to do?
SRH:
Honestly, I feel like if I had all the resources in the world I would love to do—I'm always looking at residencies.
I haven't applied to any yet, but I've always wanted to travel. I think it would be so fun to just be somewhere. Just like beautiful architecture, beautiful scenery, and like, as many supplies as my heart desires. And a giant, giant canvas.
Like, I want to do something like 20 feet tall. I love the thought of just like having the canvas on the ground.
Because I do—a lot of the times my paintings are on the ground and I kind of walk around them and look that way, and then they rotate a lot. There's a lot of movement for the canvas in the process, but I don't know. But I'll say, like Basquiat is one of my [people]. I've seen some of the things that he did and how large.
And when I was in New York, I got to go to the MoMA and just seeing how big it is and in your face—it's just like, I don't know, larger than life. And I think that that's a really fun way to be creative. It's like the small paintings are fun and nice, but it's also like, I need more room, you know, like, it's like I want to just—I don't know, I feel like that was a horrible way to describe it.
ZO:
No! It make sense. Like with abstract expressionism, it is about movement.
It's about not necessarily being literal. It's just like, when you're doing it, you might have a mood which makes your hand move faster. I learned a lot about that from this book called Ninth Street Women, and it’s about women in the abstract expressionism movement like after the First World War and I got to learn—it's like Lee Krasner, Helen Frankenthaler but it goes behind like how abstract expressionism works and I highly recommend it.
SRH:
I would love to check it out. When you do your morning pages or when you write like, do you notice your hand handwriting change based off your mood?
ZO:
Yeah!
SRH:
It's so funny. I was thinking about that because you said the energetic shift of painting, but it's like, it looks like four different people right here—like it's like what is going on?
ZO:
But this morning I noticed because, like, the sun was coming in, like I felt really good. I was sitting up straight.
SRH:
My handwriting is pretty.
ZO:
Yeah. And elegant. And I was like, today is a beautiful day.
Where to find Sam Reeves Hill
Instagram: @samreeveshill
Website: www.samartist.net